String Gauge & Intonation

underaroof · #1 06-18-2011, 04:52 PM

Hey guys,

I just bought an old hagstrom HIIB, and after I cleaned it the only strings I had around were regular .105-.045 long scale. This bass is a medium scale so they didn't exactly fit, and they feel a little too thick on this bass anyway.

So here's the problem: basically all the frets above 12 are sharp. This bass has a wood piece bridge so I can't change the intonation that way. Will a lighter string gauge help this problem? I don't want to replace the bridge because the bass is stock from 1966, and it's made of wood.

Any ideas? I'm going to buy a lighter gauge next anyway, and probably try something besides roundwounds on this guy, there's no tone knob just a switch.

here's the bass btw: Restoring an Hagstrom, need some help

john grey · #2 06-18-2011, 05:42 PM

Obviously you must make a choice. If you retain the originality of the instrument you maintain it's re-sale level. If you DO desire to alter the bridge for proper intonation it (IMO) should be done on an entirely new bridge so that the original could be re-installed.

Should you attempt to make a new bridge it should meet certain requirements obviously. It should not puncture or alter the original Bass in any fashion. The original bridge is (it appears) a pressure fitted unit of elongated triangular make-up. The simplest thing would be to construct a new bridge of a hardwood and shape it's peek so that you could "shave" your distances to achieve intonation.

Go to the Double-Bass forum and look at the pictures of the simplistic double-bass bridge designs for more images and different conceptualizations of what you would need. The work will not be difficult and it will maintain the original's authentic parts.

Jay2U · #3 06-19-2011, 08:59 AM

The intonation is affected by a number of things. If the active length of the string cannot be tuned, one should look at the other possibilities. The thicker the string, the further away the core is from the saddle. This does reflect on the intonation, so tapered strings may help you into the desired direction. Another factor is the action, or distance between the string and (usually) the twelfth fret. The bigger the action, the higher the tension becomes while fretting at higher positions. So if the action can be set, I'd give it a try.

Keep on playing subsonically!

underaroof · #4 06-19-2011, 05:58 PM

I'll definitely keep those things in mind. I've tried to set the action, but couldn't get it down too low. I'll try again, the strings were fairly new when I first tried.

About creating a new wood piece for the bridge, what does it mean that it's been pressure fitted? When I had the bridge off I noticed there were no screws or anything on the bridge for the wood piece, I had figured it was just glued on. Will taking it off possibly crack the wood at all? If it ends up being too big a deal I guess I just won't record much with this bass, which is a bummer but I'd rather be in tune..

seanm · #5 06-19-2011, 08:30 PM

I had a Hagstrom H1B with the wooden bridge. I used long scale light gauge Chromes on it. I was very impressed with the intonation. I was close enough to spot on for rock and roll

However, I would have never played above the 12th fret... so I am not sure if those notes where in tune. I sorta assumed if the 12th fret is in tune, the higher ones should be. Wouldn't that imply that the frets are in the wrong place?

underaroof · #6 06-20-2011, 03:35 PM

I really help a lighter gauge helps at least a little bit with the intonation issue. The strings get progressively sharp as you keep fretting up the neck. I play more than a few parts where I play some sort of chord above the 12th so it needs to be as in tune as possible.

I'm not done setting the bass up to gig spec but I need to get ahold of some new strings first. I'm definitely considering putting tapewounds on this bass, no tone knob so roundwounds are almost too bright with the pickups that are in this. Sounds very p-bassy with only the neck PU on, good growl.

FunkMetalBass · #7 06-20-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underaroof

I really help a lighter gauge helps at least a little bit with the intonation issue. The strings get progressively sharp as you keep fretting up the neck. I play more than a few parts where I play some sort of chord above the 12th so it needs to be as in tune as possible.

I'm not done setting the bass up to gig spec but I need to get ahold of some new strings first. I'm definitely considering putting tapewounds on this bass, no tone knob so roundwounds are almost too bright with the pickups that are in this. Sounds very p-bassy with only the neck PU on, good growl.

If anything, a heavier gauge would be the solution. If you fret hard, you can bend the string downward and make it sharp. Also, lighter strings require higher action to alleviate fret buzz when playing with the same amount of force applied. That higher action results in more downward bending to reach the frets, and the notes can be sharp.

FunkMetalBass · #8 06-20-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanm

I had a Hagstrom H1B with the wooden bridge. I used long scale light gauge Chromes on it. I was very impressed with the intonation. I was close enough to spot on for rock and roll

However, I would have never played above the 12th fret... so I am not sure if those notes where in tune. I sorta assumed if the 12th fret is in tune, the higher ones should be. Wouldn't that imply that the frets are in the wrong place?

Not necessarily. High action at any fret can change the intonation, and it's especially noticeable on the higher frets where micro-movements change the note drastically. If you have really high action and get the 12th fret in tune, it's likely that the other frets will be out of tune due to the change in action at each fret (higher string action above the frets presumably need more downward bend, lower action presumably less).

ixlramp · #9 06-20-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underaroof

Will a lighter string gauge help this problem?

Yes.
The intonation offset of a saddle is caused by the stiffness of a string, a larger gauge is usually stiffer. You need more flexible strings as these have a 'correct intonation' saddle position closer to the neck. Reducing the gauges makes the strings more flexible. Or, use the same gauges but in a more flexible brand (D'Addario nickels?). Flats are usually stiffer for the same gauge so that choice will work against you unless you drop the gauge a long way. So I would recommend trying smaller gauge roundwounds but nickels to mellow the tone.

seanm · #10 06-20-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

Not necessarily. High action at any fret can change the intonation, and it's especially noticeable on the higher frets where micro-movements change the note drastically. If you have really high action and get the 12th fret in tune, it's likely that the other frets will be out of tune due to the change in action at each fret (higher frets presumably need more downward bend, lower frets presumably less.

Ok, I can agree with that.

FunkMetalBass · #11 06-20-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanm

Ok, I can agree with that.

I had to make a minor edit, but I presume you got the gist.