TI Flats

[Sundogue]

Well, now I've really gone and done it...

Money is a little tight right now, so I'm not buying any new strings for a while, and my current favorite roundwounds (DR Sunbeams) were getting stale and lifeless. I had already boiled/thoroughly cleaned two old sets of them and had nothing to replace them with.

Except for an old (5-7 years?) set of TI Flats. I thought, what the heck, I'll put them on and give them a try, since I never used them on my current bass or played them through my current rig, so I had no idea how'd they sound now.

I tried liking them as my mainstay strings over the years...but kept going back to roundwounds. I've tried every other flat made...and flats just don't appeal to me as much as rounds.

But seeing as how I built my own custom bass, and built my own 115 neo cabs (that are very mid-voiced) and I couldn't go buy some new rounds, I thought I'd give them yet another try.

I'm glad I did. My gig Friday night was a full house, and we were rockin the place. My first thought as we ripped through the first part of the first set, was that Wow, my sound is huge! Notes were so well defined and thick, yet surprisingly not boomy. The TI's had enough thump to give me that ol' bass sound, yet I wasn't getting lost in the mix (two guitar players, keyboardist and a loud drummer).

But I knew I had some songs coming up in the second set that I knew would be a real test. "Never Been Any Reason" and "Carry on Wayward Son" were definitely my "roundwound", bright string songs. I didn't think the TI's were going to do those songs justice.

But they were amazingly bright and clear (due to TI Flats being very mid enhanced, if you will). No, they didn't cop a roundwound personality and weren't a perfect fit for those songs. But what they lacked in that roundwound zinginess, they made up for with such definition...and sustain!

The TI's sustain just as long as any rounds I've played. They also are quite brilliant for a flat (not zingy bright like a round, but not just the dull thump of other flats either). They also are more even in tone and output all across EADG than my fave roundwounds. The D and G strings don't sound so weak. All the strings sound full, fat, well defined, and most of all clear. "Clear" and "sustain" are not words I usually associate with flats. I do now.

Now, keep in mind these strings are 5 to 7 years old and have been on and off quite a few of my basses already. I just had them lying around and my new bass needed a string change.

Happy I did. Before the gig, I commented to my wife..."You know, if these strings work on my bass and through my new rig, I may not have to buy so many strings anymore."

Now I don't.

[LuckyCondlins]

cool man! thats an interesting story, 5-7 year old strings, its like a fine wine aged to perfection!


Maybe ill try them out!

[BetterBottomEnd]

The best string ever. I love them. I'm a big fan of flats and I actually tune my BEADG set up to EADGC on my five and it gives them that high tension traditional flat feel. Sound less round like but still that great warm sound that just cuts right through.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by LuckyCondlins

cool man! thats an interesting story, 5-7 year old strings, its like a fine wine aged to perfection!


Maybe ill try them out!

Really, they sound as good as the first day I bought them. Better, in fact, given that my new rig and bass seem better suited to these strings.

I would say that the best quality the TI's have over every other string I've ever played (round or flat...over the past 30 years), is the lack of weird overtones associated with certain notes. It sounded like studio quality bass on a live gig. EVERY note, on EVERY string was clear and well defined.

Having said that, they don't replace that true roundwound sound. There is a place for roundwounds. Just not on my bass for a while at least.

[Johnny StingRay]

Welcome to the club! I play TI Flats on my StingRay 5 with a very lightly rolled piece of very thin foam under the strings at the bridge and I swear my Ray is alive. I own a Digitech BP80 and used it to get the sound I wanted, but since I put the TI Flats on about 4 months ago and have been using the foam for a mute, (thank you Carol Kaye for your suggetion), my sound is exactly how I like it. I don't use the BP80 anymore. I don't need to. My sound straight to my amp, (Fender Rumble 100/15) is perfect. (Don't ask how I came to own a StingRay 5 and then run it through what many people say is a "beginner" amp..................it's a long story, but I love the sound.) I've played D'Addario Chrome Flats which are nice and I like them, but my Ray has never sounded this good as with the TIs. Oh, Carol Kaye once sold a bass that had five year old TI Flats on it and the person that bought it played it for another two years before changing strings! You will save money in the long run. And TI Flats get better with age.
Peace,
Johnny

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by Johnny StingRay

Welcome to the club! ...You will save money in the long run. And TI Flats get better with age.
Peace, Johnny

Well, I've been a member of the club for a long time now.

I just haven't been to the meetings in a while.

It is interesting that after all these years, and all the basses they've been on and off, they still sound fabulous.

[62bass]

The T.I. flats on my Precision are about 7 years old now and still going strong. My other basses are also strung with the Thomastics and they range from 1 year to 5 years. Great strings.

[dave_bass5]

Im giving Ti's a second go as well.
I had a set a couple of years ago on my HW1 Jazz. loved them at first but missed the round sound. I dont like SS strings because they are too bright but i felt the TI's were just a bit too dead sounding live.
I got a HW-One P a couple of months ago and just got a new set (i lost the old ones) of TI's. Again, first impressions were very good. Nice solid sound, more thump than my Nicks and very easy to play. I love the low tension of these strings. I wanted a more old school P sound and i think i now have it.
After three gigs im still not 100% sure again but this time ill stick with them for longer.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by dave_bass5

Im giving Ti's a second go as well.
I had a set a couple of years ago on my HW1 Jazz. loved them at first but missed the round sound. I dont like SS strings because they are too bright but i felt the TI's were just a bit too dead sounding live.
I got a HW-One P a couple of months ago and just got a new set (i lost the old ones) of TI's. Again, first impressions were very good. Nice solid sound, more thump than my Nicks and very easy to play. I love the low tension of these strings. I wanted a more old school P sound and i think i now have it.
After three gigs im still not 100% sure again but this time ill stick with them for longer.

I know how you feel. But most of my feelings about flats come from being almost a strictly roundwound player for the past 30 years.

Once you get over the initial "these don't sound like roundwounds" hump, you begin to appreciate the things that make TI's better than roundwounds, or even other flats.

For one, TI's aren't like other flats. They have a bit of that "thump", but really what that is just pure bass tone. Unlike a roundwound that produces the low end fundamental, yet still sounds like a low frequency guitar, TI's produce a true bass sound.

Secondly, because of the silk wrap under the windings, there are no wierd overtones like what you get with rounds, or most flats...meaning even though you get a more true bass tone, it isn't muddy or boomy...even low notes are well defined.

Also, because TI's have a round core instead of a hex core, they ring truer and sustain longer than other flats. That also is what makes them seem "floppy" and have less tension. Unlike the decay of a note with other flats, when you hit the string and let it ring out it will sustain as long as a roundwound.

Again, because of their design, the tone and output are equal across all the strings. The D and the G strings are just as well defined and equal in output as the E and A strings.

Most of all, the TI's produce very strong mids. While not being overly bright like a roundwound, they cut through the mix better and give each note (anywhere on the neck, on any string) more clarity. Which means every note you play is well defined, clear and has more presence than most any other string you can play.

Don't try to compare the TI Flats to roundwounds because they don't. There isn't a piano like brilliance to them, but they don't sound like old dull flats like Jamerson either.

I find the TI's to be the perfect blend of roundwound and flat sound...and far more versatile than most any other string I've tried. There is a place for rounds, but to me there really are no other flats for those who like more of the roundwound qualities.

[markdavid]

I need to try a set of these strings , ive always been put off in the past as people have said that they are quite bright but someone described them to me once as articulate rather than bright , plus im told that Paul Mccartney uses these strings , so afaic if theyr'e good enough for Macca and there good enough for Carol Kaye then im sure they'll be good for me

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by markdavid

I need to try a set of these strings , ive always been put off in the past as people have said that they are quite bright but someone described them to me once as articulate rather than bright , plus im told that Paul Mccartney uses these strings , so afaic if theyr'e good enough for Macca and there good enough for Carol Kaye then im sure they'll be good for me

Yes, articulate rather than bright. Good way to describe them.

For me, the issue that keeps bringing me back to the TI Flats, is that my favorite sound is that full, yet bright, zingy roundwound sound. So why TI flats then, because they don't give that sound?

Unfortunately I'd go broke trying to maintain that sound as roundwounds only sound that way for a very short time (all of them...I know, I've tried them all). That's the deal with roundwounds...the sound I want from them only lasts a gig or two, no matter how clean I keep them.

But...the sound I get from TI Flats, while not that zingy roundwound sound, is as you said, articulate. The best part is, they STAY articulate, unlike rounds that end up sounding dull and lifeless.

I need strings that do not need to be replaced so often. Perhaps the TI's will fit the bill this time around with my new bass and rig.

[N8116B]

http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/guitars/index.html

Where does one find these strings? I looked at the above website but I see nothing but roundwound bass strings

[SuperDuck]

Originally Posted by N8116B

http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/guitars/index.html

Where does one find these strings? I looked at the above website but I see nothing but roundwound bass strings

I don't see them on the TI site, but there are lots of places that sell them. I ordered mine from www.jivesound.com (it was nice to give my business to a fellow Talkbasser) or you can order them from the old standby Juststrings.com

http://www.juststrings.com/thomastik...flatwound.html

[62bass]

Originally Posted by N8116B

http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/guitars/index.html

Where does one find these strings? I looked at the above website but I see nothing but roundwound bass strings

They're there-you just have to click the right icons.

First click on "Jazz E Bass", then "Flat Wound", then "4 string" (or 5 string if that's the case), then "Flat Wound Medium. Then scroll down through 32" scale and 34" scale to find the ones you need.

Most local music stores don't stock them. I have a source here, but you can get them on line at various places. Carol Kaye sells the 34" scale 4 string flatwounds (JF 344) only from her site. Her prices are comparable and she ships fast.

[dave_bass5]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

I know how you feel. But most of my feelings about flats come from being almost a strictly roundwound player for the past 30 years.

This is my problem as well. Nothing wrong with how they sound, its just getting used to them. I have noticed a few bass lines i play just dont sound right with TI's but i can change that given time.
I really hope i do stick with them this time. Im sure i will.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by dave_bass5

This is my problem as well. Nothing wrong with how they sound, its just getting used to them. I have noticed a few bass lines i play just dont sound right with TI's but i can change that given time.
I really hope i do stick with them this time. Im sure i will.

Yeah, there are some songs where roundwounds give you that "bite" and growl. But honestly, while I do miss that roundwound sound on some of those types of songs, the TI's just have much more clarity with every note.

As an example, when I play "Carry on Wayward Son", the bass is so piano like, that I never thought the TI's would sound as good on it. Because the bass carries the verse by itself pretty much.

But to my surprise, the TI's didn't sound like flats. The notes were clear and full and sustained beautifully. Not in a roundwound, zingy kind of way...but it still carried the song better than I thought they would. And in the hectic, fast parts the TI's really showed their strength in that those parts sounded much tighter than we ever played them. With my roundwounds (pick a brand, I've tried them all) I sounded kind of sloppy (no, it's not my playing )...which I attribute to the weird overtones one gets with other strings. The TI's were more (as someone else said) "articulate". Unlike EVERY other brand of string, be it flats or rounds, TI's have a silk wrap between the core and the outer winding which eliminates those overtones. When you hit a note, it is strikingly defined.

I don't think I've ever played so tight with the drummer or the rest of the band. As the night went on, I found I was more in the groove than I've been in a long time. I was in the groove all night instead of thinking about my sound.

No, they weren't like rounds at all, but the TI Flats gave me something I wasn't counting on, and that was far more definition and standing out in the mix more than I've ever heard. Nothing changed but my strings. I would never have thought flats could do that. It was the very reason I played roundwounds...to make my bass stand out more, as flats in the past seemed dull to me. Even these TI's on other basses through other rigs, just weren't quite right. But I think with my sound now, I'm more concerned with having mids be more present. TI's put out more mids by design, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with why I'm liking them more now.

I think what appeals to me most, is that with the TI's my live stage sound is so distinct now. Alone, by myself, I don't really care for them. It is in the context of a live gig that they are so remarkable.

So if anyone is interested in trying them, be sure to gig with them to give them a fair chance. They still aren't going to be everyone's fave, nor could they be. But I sure love the thought of just keeping the same old set of strings on for years.

[dave_bass5]

Totally agree and understand.
I am very pleased about the extra punch i get and lack of muddy lows. I find i play a bit tighter as well.
I have tried Chromes and liked them as well but thought they didnt give that extra special something i got with the TI's.
Normally i would use Nicks so im not really a zing sort of guy. I like it mellow so i figure if i can last a few months then ill stick with the TI's for life.

[mambo4]

I love and hate my TI's.

I love what the tone brings: more articulation, more cut in the mix, even tone all the stuff already mentioned.

But I'm just not fond of the mid range boost esp on my Jbass. I never liked the honking Jaco-esuqe mids as a tone. (Maybe Jeff berlin's tone is a closer characterization) But I come from years of very heavy half-round Pbass sounds.

That said, It grows on me every day. I put 'em on at Xmas and haven't played too often, so they are probably still "breaking in".

I'm afraid I will ultimately learn to love my mid-range honking tone....

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I love and hate my TI's.

I love what the tone brings: more articulation, more cut in the mix, even tone all the stuff already mentioned.

But I'm just not fond of the mid range boost esp on my Jbass. I never liked the honking Jaco-esuqe mids as a tone. (Maybe Jeff berlin's tone is a closer characterization) But I come from years of very heavy half-round Pbass sounds.

That said, It grows on me every day. I put 'em on at Xmas and haven't played too often, so they are probably still "breaking in".

I'm afraid I will ultimately learn to love my mid-range honking tone....

Well, mids are what cut in a live setting. I'm not a big fan of a lot of mids when playing alone or even in a band setting at a very low volume. But when onstage in a rock band, mids will cut through the barrage of two guitarists, keyboardist and drummer.

That "honking" tone isn't as noticeable when gigging. Instead of it sounding like honking, it just makes the bass notes more defined.

You can EQ some of that out depending on what amp and cab you use. My 115's are already very mid-voiced. So much so, that the "smiley-face" EQ on my amp actually makes my cabs more flat sounding. The TI's make it cut through more. But I know if I didn't like it, I could EQ that out.

However, I really don't like my tone with the TI's when playing by myself without drastically cutting the mids. But I don't play alone much, unless it's to learn a new song. Even then, I'm playing through my headphones and I don't really care about tone then. I rehearse with my band once a week and play out twice on the the weekends, so I need it to cut more live.

I know why some won't like TI's and it's understandable. It's an acquired taste to be sure. Especially for those seeking that bright, modern, hi-fi tone.

[N8116B]

Originally Posted by 62bass

They're there-you just have to click the right icons.

First click on "Jazz E Bass", then "Flat Wound", then "4 string" (or 5 string if that's the case), then "Flat Wound Medium. Then scroll down through 32" scale and 34" scale to find the ones you need.

Most local music stores don't stock them. I have a source here, but you can get them on line at various places. Carol Kaye sells the 34" scale 4 string flatwounds (JF 344) only from her site. Her prices are comparable and she ships fast.

I see no link for flat wound. Just three choices of round wound strings.