too much tension on flats?

[Gord_oh]

EDIT: QUESTION IN BOLD BELOW

my brother bought me a pair of fender flats, medium/light IIRC. i threw them on a jazz bass and noticed how difficult it was to push down the strings on the fretboard, a lot of tension. i figured it might be the bass, or the setup. so i restrung it with rounds.

i have a pbass that i have been dying to put flats on, so i had these lying around and decided to give it a shot. same thing. there is a lot of tension on the strings. i have had other flats, chromes, and havent had this problem.

i guess the my reason for posting is to ask is it the strings that cause this? will they just need to be broken in more? remedies?

Figured I could use this thread for another purpose, rather than starting a new one.
I moved the flats onto another pbass i have, one I use a bit less, because my hands were starting to hurt. (although i think it may have improved my technique a bit) when I moved the strings over they are riding the frets way too low. raised the bridge as much as could without the strings hitting the pup cover, maxed out my truss rod to the left to try and raise it, nothing. is it time for shim? help.

[Mastermold]

Fender flats are high tension strings, and the effort to push them down probably means they raised your action too, so you'd need to adjust your neck to account for the added tension. But if you wanted to try lighter tension flats, there are many to choose from. Search the threads here for TI flats, which are very popular low tension flats, and also lighter guage Chromes are good.

[Bongolation]

Fender flats are appallingly high tension, though I haven't tried the "new" ones yet.

Yes, they are very hard to play relative to other strings. I have them on numerous of my basses. I was just playing my MM with 9050MLs last night and thought that, hang the expense, I was going to get rid of these things and string it up with something that wasn't as much freakin' work to play.

[Mastermold]

I've got Fender 9050M flats on my CS 55 P-bass -- that's a workout!

I had a set in my "spares" box, so I thought I'd put 'em on my new CV P bass... YIKES! Are they "stiff!!!" Gave me tendonitis in my left elbow! Waiting on my Chromes to get here! Changing basses 'til then...

[SurferJoe46]

Originally Posted by tifftunes

I had a set in my "spares" box, so I thought I'd put 'em on my new CV P bass... YIKES! Are they "stiff!!!" Gave me tendonitis in my left elbow! Waiting on my Chromes to get here! Changing basses 'til then...

Oh oh oh oh oh - talk to me here!

I am suffering from severe left elbow pain too - vague and kinda hard to actually push onto the painful part - but it hurts all the same!

What I thought was bad computer/desk posture might be the ROTO77s? (which I love dearly, mind you!)

Please don't tell me that!

You might be onto something here - gads, I hope not though!!!!!

Are those 77s considered 'high tension'?

[Gord_oh]

so adjusting my truss rod and lowering my action should fix this problem? (lefty loosey?)
i like flats, and these sound good, but to quote someone else here, yeah they are a bit of a workout.

maybe ill try another set of flats...any suggestions?

[Spin Doctor]

Even Chromes were too much for me. It was like playing on re-bar. I Switched to TI Jazz flats and am happy once again... TI's are more expensive, though...

[Mastermold]

Originally Posted by Gord_oh

so adjusting my truss rod and lowering my action should fix this problem? (lefty loosey?)
i like flats, and these sound good, but to quote someone else here, yeah they are a bit of a workout.

maybe ill try another set of flats...any suggestions?

Light Chromes. Might be just right overall.

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

Oh oh oh oh oh - talk to me here!

I am suffering from severe left elbow pain too - vague and kinda hard to actually push onto the painful part - but it hurts all the same!

What I thought was bad computer/desk posture might be the ROTO77s? (which I love dearly, mind you!)

Please don't tell me that!

You might be onto something here - gads, I hope not though!!!!!

Are those 77s considered 'high tension'?

I haven't tried Roto flats in over 30 years!!! I was referring to Fender's only flats... They actually "hurt" me! Smooth feel, but very high tension. My left hand, fingers and elbow do NOT like them at all!

[jumbodbassman]

Originally Posted by Gord_oh

so adjusting my truss rod and lowering my action should fix this problem? (lefty loosey?)
i like flats, and these sound good, but to quote someone else here, yeah they are a bit of a workout.

maybe ill try another set of flats...any suggestions?

Fender are a little stiff but sound really good. Think motown..

I have always gone down in size when switching a bass from rw to flats. if you were using 105 rw try 1 100 flat. also action should be able to get much lower without fret noise.... check neck for bowing in with flats which means you will have to tighten the neck if anything....

TI' and labella are great strings -goona cost you 50i sh
Chromes good especially for price. haven't tried EB and i would assume the sadowsky would be good too. Roto flats i have =only used short scale on my eb's so can't really tell you about a fender but they are cool with the gibbies (bruce used them) Jim

[THand]

Originally Posted by Gord_oh

so adjusting my truss rod and lowering my action should fix this problem? (lefty loosey?)
i like flats, and these sound good, but to quote someone else here, yeah they are a bit of a workout.

maybe ill try another set of flats...any suggestions?

Ya wanna go "righty-tighty" with that rod, BTW. Takes relief out if you are trying for lower action.

[Gord_oh]

my mistake. i know better than that too. ill have to try that when i go home.
these strings sound good, i like them, but that extra tension is killing me.

[Marton]

GHS Precision flats 95-45 are pretty low tension too, and are less than half the price of the TIs. And to me, they have the classic flatwound tone more than the TIs. Give them a try, they're awesome !

[Gord_oh]

ADDED TO OP:

Figured I could use this thread for another purpose, rather than starting a new one.
I moved the flats onto another pbass i have, one I use a bit less, because my hands were starting to hurt. (although i think it may have improved my technique a bit) when I moved the strings over they are riding the frets way too low. raised the bridge as much as could without the strings hitting the pup cover, maxed out my truss rod to the left to try and raise it, nothing. is it time for shim? help.

[SurferJoe46]

Shim time

I'd NOT move that truss if the neck is straight - that's the purpose of the truss, to straighten (as you like it either extremely straight or just slightly concave) the neck only.

All string height positions should be a process of the bridge adjustment or by raising or lowering the neck via shims, but not by using the truss adjustment.

Once the truss is adjusted, then the string height is a different process to get them set.

There may be a slight tweaking later to the truss for humidity or the neck taking a bow from string tension or lack of it, but really the truss is a neck shape adjustment primarily.

[Gord_oh]

ok. so ill make the neck straight then shim in the pocket.
where about to put a shim? top of pocket, bottom? business card trick as well?
i dont have any wood shim laying around.

[TimB 619]

Originally Posted by Marton

GHS Precision flats 95-45 are pretty low tension too, and are less than half the price of the TIs. And to me, they have the classic flatwound tone more than the TIs. Give them a try, they're awesome !

I agree, this is why I'm changing back to these strings.

[SurferJoe46]

Originally Posted by Gord_oh

ok. so ill make the neck straight then shim in the pocket.
where about to put a shim? top of pocket, bottom? business card trick as well?
i dont have any wood shim laying around.

There's prolly a blurb on it in the FAQ area, but I even hate to use that source some times.

The neck, if the top where the tuning machines are is low in relation to the bridge, then the strings are going to bounce on the frets.

The opposite prevails if the neck is too far "forward" or above the body of the bass; the strings will be really high over the frets. That's how Hawaiian Steel Guitars are set up, but we is talkin' basses here.

The true relationship concerns the top nut-to-the-bridge and the straight line drawn between them by the strings.

If the top nut can't "see" the bridge when the bridge is approximately in the central adjustment (in the middle of the height adjusters) then you can feel free to make the head rise or fall as needed by shims.

You need to have a small bridge fudge-factor to adjust the string heights individually to compensate for new or different strings in the future.

For shims: I like to use playing cards as they are made out of pure pressed linen and they don't shrink or swell under very extreme situations.

There are all sorts of schools of thought and practice about using a tapered shim (nice if you can fab-one up or buy one from whatever mysterious supply house on Venus that would have them. I personally got tired of Googling for "tapered neck shims" and used the playing cards.

I typically cut the cards into fairly wide strips and just one piece has almost always been enough.

YOU WILL GET A LOT OF ADJUSTMENT OUT OF A VERY THIN SHIM!!

You don't have to restring the instrument to see if you are getting close - just a yardstick that is straight laid on the top nut and the bridge string stirrups will get you into the game.

While you're at it, take any manufacturing chips and luthier's fingernail clipping out of the neck/body pocket. Cleanliness is important for a good seat for the neck.

OH - and use a real PHILLIP's screw driver!!!! Don't try to fake it here as you will only succeed in screwing things up if you buzz the pattern out of the screw heads while you are doing this.

And NO POWER TOOLS OR POWER SCREW DRIVER GUNS EITHER!!

Do your work in a slow and methodical way (THINK and PLAN AHEAD!) and use a dedicate place to do it too. The top of your bed is not a work bench.

[lowendfriend]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

Are those 77s considered 'high tension'?

Roto77's are frequently used as an example of high tension strings.....they nearly pulled the bridge off my ABG.