Trying some tuning B-E-A-D questions

rbonner · #1 01-01-2009, 01:56 PM

I originally started out on a Gibson EB-0 and that bass had very loose string tensions. It allowed me some flexability to do some "Stuff". Don't ask what kind of stuff, it was just very comfortable playing.

Then I swapped to 34" scale Jazz fretless format and played for 20 some years, and recently changed back to frets on a four string jazz.

I have tinkered with drop tuning just this week and just was playing around with B-E-A-D
on the jazz. I play D'Addario medium ga chromes (flats) Detuning the 4 string set the string tension reminds me of how the EB-0 felt.

First question for you guys is there a problem with playing the bass like this. Neck warpage? Etc...

Do the strings perform OK compared to changing them out to normal 5 string sets?

Is there anybody else out there playing their basses like this?

I'd like to hear some opinions... I'd probably just pick up a 5 string in the long haul, but in the past I haven't had a need for the really low stuff, but after playing for a half an hour I might get hooked on shaking the place with some low tones.

I've never been a huge fan of stuff up on the G string and I always enjoyed going to the last couple keys on a piano.

BOB

T-Bird · #2 01-01-2009, 03:23 PM

Hi.

For me even 130 B feels a bit floppy on a 34", so if the medium gauge You're speaking of is along the lines of 50-105, I can imagine that the it may feel a bit "loose". I wouldn't even dream of doing that, I like my strings tight.

I can't see any harm to the neck if the truss rod is still able to counter-act the string tension. If not, it WILL rattle. Shouldn't harm the neck too badly though.

The strings tension determines it's designed behaviour so yes, detuning or tuning higher than the "normal" changes the characteristics. If the tension change isn't constant with all the strings, there may be some weird harmonic cancellations when playing 8ths for example. Also tuning and intonation might be a bit different than with the designed tension.

BEAD sets seem to be quite rare, so if the Skulls set won't prove itself superior and justify the hefty price tag, I will just buy 5er sets and leave the G to the store.

Regards
Sam

rbonner · #3 01-01-2009, 03:46 PM

Thanks Sam,

You might be right they are just a tad on the loose side. Yes it is a 50-105 set. I wouldnt mind picking up a 5 string set and leaving the G in the bag. Not a problem. Its probably not worth retuning the 4 string, but maybe some more players will comment about setting up their 4 strings with 5 string tuning, if they do.

It only matters to me I suppose what I do, but curious what others have tried before. I'm in a new realm for myself, but having some fun vibrating stuff. BOB

markdavid · #4 01-01-2009, 04:18 PM

I know you are probably not using Daddario's but use there tension chart and you will get an idea of what gauge you will need for the B string , obviously you want to get the tension as close to your e string as possible

http://www.daddario.com/Resources/JD...sion_chart.pdf

rbonner · #5 01-01-2009, 04:26 PM

Yes we do use D'Addario's and thank you for this information. I printed it out and will study it.

I'm most likely looking to buy a 5 string. I'll probably head over to GC and play a couple tomorrow.

BOB

Lunatic_Pandora · #6 01-01-2009, 05:12 PM

Try the ernie Ball 55-110 Power Slinkys, they're great for the job.

gregoire1 · #7 01-01-2009, 06:49 PM

I've been thinking of doing the exact same thing! I know there are a couple of guitars (ibanez Paul Gray and a Dean) designed for BEAD tuning off the shelf. To me the loose string tension is the advantage. Lots of cool stuff you can do impossible with standard tuning on a 34 inch scale. Let us know what you do.

kgoism · #8 01-01-2009, 06:51 PM

^ doesn't paul gray use a lefty warwick? Or did he switch?...

Sorry, don't really listen to Slipknot, I just read an article about him a few years back.

JustDavid · #9 01-01-2009, 06:53 PM

Low tension flats?

Gotta toss a plug in for TI Jazz Flats

gregoire1 · #10 01-01-2009, 07:00 PM

its a Paul gray signature so I guess it comes righty or lefty. I saw it in Bass player mag a couple of months ago. Of course I could be wrong.

gregoire1 · #11 01-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Ibanez PGB1 Paul Gray signature

Solarmist · #12 01-02-2009, 02:53 AM

Most people will tell you to use a 5 string set for BEAD, and chuck the G ... like a 45125 set

I use 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 nickel plated rounds for DGCF - my standard tuning, and perfect tension IMO.

I won a Ibanez SR800 off Ebay I going to setup ADGC using 70 / 90 / 110 / 130. The 130 for the A will be a bit more loose than I prefer, but for now that's what I'm starting with.

Fergie Fulton · #13 01-02-2009, 03:18 AM

I've used B-E-A-D numerous times as an alternetive to using a 5 string bass and have had no problems what so ever. I work with a lot of blues players who has a rule like to tune a semi-tone below concert anyway. For some artists i have a second bass tuned like that the whole time so i can change quickly over.
Constance Redgrave plays BEAD all the time, she plays for The Spikedrivers, check her out she is fantastic.

www.spikedrivers.co.uk

rbonner · #14 01-02-2009, 09:23 AM

I was looking at the tension chart and if I went with these strings:
B CB132 = 35.9#
E CB100 = 38.4#
A CB75 = 36.4#
D CB55 = 36.6#

It would lower my current string tension considerably from the standard tuning which I feel is too tight for my comfort. I think I will play some at D-G-C-F today and see what I think of that with my current strings.

I'm curious as to what you guys think... That 35 - 40 # range is tolerable.
Went out and listened to Constance Redgrave. Played all their Clips. Great Blues. BOB

greenboy · #15 01-02-2009, 09:40 AM

Sure Bob, that'll work. I've gone a lot lower and a lot higher in tension with rounds, and that's really a good medium balanced tension set with them and should seem fairly light with flats.

You got lucky: with only .05 increments to choose from and some big gaps too, it's hard to construct sets with fairly balanced tension.

rbonner · #16 01-02-2009, 06:44 PM

OK I went out and did it.

I stopped in at GC and they had some sets. They didn't have individuals but they had some boxes of D'Addario Chromes XL ECB81-5. 5 string.

This set is a little different than the individuals I rattled off earlier.

Perfect balance ** ECB81-5 set
B CB132 = 35.9# ** B CB132
E CB100 = 38.4# ** E CB100
A CB75 = 36.4# ** A CB80 = 43.7#
D CB55 = 36.6# ** D CB65 = 52.0#

I managed to drop 7 and 8 pounds on the A and D strings from my previous flats. They actually feel alright. If I think I need to go any further I'll send away to "strings" for a different CB60 D... But so far the A seems alright at 43 pounds.

OK so those who wonder what I did. I took my 2007 4 string American Deluxe Jazz. It has had the Frets Jewelled and a Badass II bridge.

I started on the B string and threaded it in. The badass was hand notched by my luthier when he did the fret level and bridge install. The bridge end looked OK,

I figured I needed the string 1/2 in and 1/2 out of the nut. The string sat awful high at the first fret. I took a micro file I bought at sears today and gently cut the string notches down every few strokes testing the string fit.

I then laced it and tried it out.

I moved right down the nut and finally had B-E-A-D setup on the bass. I went back and after tuning it and playing it some I notched the nut slightly more on the D and A strings as they weren't in 1/2 way and was higher than I wanted.

They dont buzz unless I really nail it and there is a much lighter touch at the first fret.

I hooked it up and played the thing on my small amp. A pair of Ampeg 810 cabs and two Peavey CS800S amps (1200 W each in to 4 Ohms)

WOW, the thing really draws amperage on an open B and instantly popped the circuit protect on the Monster Power 3500PRO power conditioner. Its only rated 15 AMPS and the two Peaveys will peak much higher. (I'll reset the trip point, HAHAHAHA)

It is quite obvious the 810's lack smoke at 30 Hz... I think will be adding a pair of homebrew cabs that have two Beyma 21L50 21" drivers in them each. If that doesn't work I might try the Hemp Acoustics 25" drivers. That should stretch my bottom end down a little further.

I'd like to have the cabs match my 810's and 215's in height and width and the 21" ers will allow me to do that, (about 30" deep) but there is a bunch more bottom on the 25"ers.

I wonder, do you guys think I need to make any changes in the pickups? Or are they good to go at 30Hz from 40? It is pretty obvious the gain drops on B. I dont know why anybody would want to go lower than B, but I know they are doing it. F# and stuff, wild. The change in tone walking up each fret is so small down there as it is.

Anyway.. I'm pretty pleased with the end result... But need to relearn how to play this thing. With the G missing with some of the works I will need to go elsewhere...

I had played a fretless for 20 years and just recently went back to frets due to arthritis making my playing sloppy... The tight strings irritated it too and made my hands tired.

I think this is going to be better all the way around.

SO guys I want to say THANK YOU... Your comments were listened too and followed.

I'm glad I came over here and met you guys who I haven't met before.

Sincerely, BOB