Tuned my bass Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Gb yesterday!

Lorenzini · #1 12-30-2007, 08:23 PM

I was watching some gospelchops videos I downloaded over 2 years ago and lo and behold, a few of them tuned down to flat! And they sounded great, and of course playing in predominantly flat keys (as this occurs a lot in gospel, jazz and r&b, which is what I play mostly), I thought I'd give it a try!

It's great.

I have a 55-02 which has 35" scale. Tuning is flat gives such a great thumpy sound. It's a bit hard to explain but it actually gets a more punchy tone! Also, now I can play more Stevie tunes on open strings!

I can imagine on an inferior 34" scale bass, it may not sound so good, but that remains to be seen and WHEN I get another 4 string I'll be trying it for sure.

EDIT: Dean Markley Blue Steels are the string.

Kitsapbass · #2 12-30-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

I can imagine on an inferior 34" scale bass, it may not sound so good, but that remains to be seen and WHEN I get another 4 string I'll be trying it for sure.

EDIT: Dean Markley Blue Steels are the string.

You mean like inferior poorly designed 35" scale basses???

Lorenzini · #3 12-30-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsapbass

You mean like inferior poorly designed 35" scale basses???

Sure, but I think it would be more obvious and crappy sounding on a 34" scale bass.

I imagine the 35" helps keep the strings a bit more taut even when tuned down a half step, making the tone a bit clearer than a crappy 34"er, but that remains to be seen.

I will be trying it.

Kitsapbass · #4 12-30-2007, 08:58 PM

I don't know man - crap usually equals crap...I've heard many 35" scale basses that sound equally as crappy as crap 34" scale...

Lorenzini · #5 12-30-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsapbass

I don't know man - crap usually equals crap...I've heard many 35" scale basses that sound equally as crappy as crap 34" scale...

Sigh...
Bro, I'm talking about the TAUTness of the strings and that a 35" scale bass would probably take to it a bit easier than a 34"er.

But I don't even know.

It probably has just as much to do with the kind of strings used.

Kitsapbass · #6 12-30-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

Sigh...
Bro, I'm talking about the TAUTness of the strings and that a 35" scale bass would probably take to it a bit easier than a 34"er.

But I don't even know.

It probably has just as much to do with the kind of strings used.

I agree it might help a little...maybe a teency bit less crappy, but man - there are so many things that will affect it, bridge design, string design, the acoustical transmission, damping from the magnetic pull of the strings (normally, something you don't have to deal with but once...maybe twice), the material of the strings, how resonant the body is, etc. And most of those vary bass to bass...

But as far as the 35" vs 34", it will help a slight bit...just like switching to an exposed core vs, wound core...

Lorenzini · #7 12-31-2007, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsapbass

I agree it might help a little...maybe a teency bit less crappy, but man - there are so many things that will affect it, bridge design, string design, the acoustical transmission, damping from the magnetic pull of the strings (normally, something you don't have to deal with but once...maybe twice), the material of the strings, how resonant the body is, etc. And most of those vary bass to bass...

But as far as the 35" vs 34", it will help a slight bit...just like switching to an exposed core vs, wound core...

I hear ya.

Brad Johnson · #8 12-31-2007, 01:00 AM

If you're dealing with otherwise identical basses with both scale lengths, MAYBE it'll make a pleasing difference. Otherwise, IME, it's a crapshoot. I've played basses with great B's all the way down to 30" scale that blew away lesser basses with 35".

35" is merely a factor in a much bigger picture. That's all... no matter what some people try to attach to it.

And even worse, how YOU play it can be the most important factor. There's no shortage of people who complain about B's that other people have no problem with.

jsbass · #9 12-31-2007, 01:03 AM

Sadowsky.

Guiseppe · #10 12-31-2007, 02:29 AM

I honestly can't name any songs that I need to hit a low Bb with...so I think I'd probably just have play w/ "stock tuning" to transpose the part and play most of the tonics at the 4th fret if I absolutely needed to play the song in a 'drop D' configuration.

Basseroni · #11 12-31-2007, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

I can imagine on an inferior 34" scale bass, it may not sound so good, but that remains to be seen.

Uh, no. I wouldn't classify a 34" scale bass as inferior--just a preference--a preference that has no bearing on how good a B-string sounds.

The sound of the B-string includes so many factors, primarily being the set up of your bass.

I've been playing 34 scale 5-strings for years and Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, has always been my tuning. It's my standard as I do use this tuning exclusively while reading music and all.

I've owned a Fernandes APB-100 and an Ibanez K5 and the B-strings on those sounded very good and punchy on both basses and even better on my newly acquired Musicman Stingray HH 5.

I've played a few 35s such as a Lakland 55-02 and MTD 535 and the new Z5. I really don't feel or hear much of a difference in those B's to my 34 scale Musicman.

Mopreme75 · #12 12-31-2007, 03:46 AM

thts the only way Ive tuned as far back as I can remember lol, it really helps out with most styles of music(especially gospel) and its actually pretty easy to get used to.
BTW I use Blue Steels Too, They're the best!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

I was watching some gospelchops videos I downloaded over 2 years ago and lo and behold, a few of them tuned down to flat! And they sounded great, and of course playing in predominantly flat keys (as this occurs a lot in gospel, jazz and r&b, which is what I play mostly), I thought I'd give it a try!

It's great.

I have a 55-02 which has 35" scale. Tuning is flat gives such a great thumpy sound. It's a bit hard to explain but it actually gets a more punchy tone! Also, now I can play more Stevie tunes on open strings!

I can imagine on an inferior 34" scale bass, it may not sound so good, but that remains to be seen and WHEN I get another 4 string I'll be trying it for sure.

EDIT: Dean Markley Blue Steels are the string.

Lorenzini · #13 12-31-2007, 07:55 AM

Guys, to clarify...
I'm not saying 34" scale basses are inferior.
I'm just saying on an inferior bass TO MY 55-02 (which is 35" scale FWIW), it might make a difference.

The real point of this thread is to talk about flat tuning, which I think is great!

Brad Johnson · #14 12-31-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

Guys, to clarify...
I'm not saying 34" scale basses are inferior.
I'm just saying on an inferior bass TO MY 55-02 (which is 35" scale FWIW), it might make a difference.

The real point of this thread is to talk about flat tuning, which I think is great!

And what we're saying is that the same would be true for an inferior 35" scale bass.

Lorenzini · #15 12-31-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

And what we're saying is that the same would be true for an inferior 35" scale bass.

Well, that's not what you were saying

You duplicated me correctly.

Oh yeah... and I'm saying that would also be true on an inferior 35" bass. Perhaps just a little less than an inferior 34"

Brad, ya ever done this type of tuning and used it for a while? Curious what you would say about it

Kitsapbass · #16 12-31-2007, 11:00 AM

I have - it sounds good dependent on the bass...On my Peavey, it's great; on my Guild, it comes across ok, but I think that has more to do with the strings than the bass (it has old D'addarios on it...I haven't gotten around to changing them for a WHILE......)

El-Bob · #17 12-31-2007, 11:38 AM

i play a peavey millennium bxp 5-string, it's 34", and i use a .135 d'addario for the B. I tune to ADGCF with plenty of tension to spare. just something to consider.

Lorenzini · #18 01-01-2008, 01:33 PM

Cool. Looks like getting a 34" scale 4 string is in my future then

Brad Johnson · #19 01-01-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

Well, that's not what you were saying

You duplicated me correctly.

Then by all means show me the contradiction in what I've said

:

"If you're dealing with otherwise identical basses with both scale lengths, MAYBE it'll make a pleasing difference. Otherwise, IME, it's a crapshoot. I've played basses with great B's all the way down to 30" scale that blew away lesser basses with 35".
35" is merely a factor in a much bigger picture. That's all... no matter what some people try to attach to it.

And even worse, how YOU play it can be the most important factor. There's no shortage of people who complain about B's that other people have no problem with".

Quote:

Oh yeah... and I'm saying that would also be true on an inferior 35" bass. Perhaps just a little less than an inferior 34"

And just as easily, PERHAPS not. See, that's consistent.

Quote:

Brad, ya ever done this type of tuning and used it for a while? Curious what you would say about it

A half step detune on a decent bass is really no big deal IME. Before I got a decent five maybe 20 years ago I used to detune a 4 to low B with a .115 E string. I've tuned as low as open A with a .125 and it worked fine. The key was having a bass that worked well to begin with. The bass? A 1984 Tobias 5 string. 34" scale.

I personally have found no need to do non standard tuning, even on gospel gigs. There's plenty of low end on my E that if I have to go lower than low B it works just fine. Not that I think that's what you should do, by all means detune away. It might make some things harder for me to play but hey, that's part of the challenge of the instrument. So far I haven't run into anything I couldn't handle and keep people who hire me happy.

DavePlaysBass · #20 01-01-2008, 06:47 PM

I get your point Lorenzini. A 35" scale bass will have approximately 6% more tension than a 34" scale for the same tuning. Hence a 1/2 step detune which accounts for about a 10% reduction in tension on a 105 E string will be still be tighter on a 35" scale. And higher tension usually allows for lower action. Not that the 34" scale can't detune, but a 45-105-130 set of strings would be close in tension to a 34" scale bass in standard when reducing 1/2 step on a 35" scale. And yes scale length is one of many factors but a factor that can offset the tension change when deturning.

I had a G&L L-5000 in here a while back that had a horribly bowed neck. I sent it back. But in the process of trying to nurse it back I detuned the old Blue Steel 50-70-85-105-130 set that came on the bass to D tuning and the sound was super punchy. The action was way high due to the neck bow but it did sound good. Has made me wonder if I should be seeking a set of Blue Steels and playing the crap out of them. I remember using them back in 80's and they gave me that Geddy Lee / Chris Squire buzz for a day and then they were done. But these days I think I like the day after sounds as much if not more.

Dave