What I've discovered about flats......

rumblefish · #1 12-02-2009, 08:52 AM

A power trio is fine for bassists who use roundwounds.
Any more musicians in the band and the need for flats is
greatly needed. Dual guitars, keys, multi vocals, fiddle, snyth, whatever, the more musicians in the band the more your overall sound will benefit from flats.
You see, with flats you come up from below with a thick undercurrent of bass, an 18 inch slab-of-granite foundation for your band to launch from.
It took 35 years and a cetain level of maturity for me to realize this and it became apparent that I had to back away from the zingy in your face sound of rounds and offer to my band true bottom.
The good news is, for bassists who use flats, is the power is now with you. YOU control the dance floor, YOU control the feel and the mood of the song, YOU decide the emotional gravity of the song, all from an annoynmous perch just left of the drummer.

bassist4dalord · #2 12-02-2009, 09:53 AM

Congratulations sir! I'm from Plymouth, the Detroit area. Good stuff. Flats are great... I've used them a lot, but currently only own one bass with flats. I'm thinking my main bass should get a set sometime. Thanks for the thoughts!

natw42 · #3 12-02-2009, 10:26 AM

+1
I've been playing bass for about 12 years, and I just started playing w flats recently.
There's the sound I've been looking for!
And in my 6-piece band, it really provides the needed foundation I wasn't getting w rounds.

of course YMMV, yada yada

T. Alan Smith · #4 12-02-2009, 10:29 AM

Excellent post.

JimmyM · #5 12-02-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumblefish

A power trio is fine for bassists who use roundwounds.
Any more musicians in the band and the need for flats is
greatly needed. Dual guitars, keys, multi vocals, fiddle, snyth, whatever, the more musicians in the band the more your overall sound will benefit from flats.
You see, with flats you come up from below with a thick undercurrent of bass, an 18 inch slab-of-granite foundation for your band to launch from.
It took 35 years and a cetain level of maturity for me to realize this and it became apparent that I had to back away from the zingy in your face sound of rounds and offer to my band true bottom.
The good news is, for bassists who use flats, is the power is now with you. YOU control the dance floor, YOU control the feel and the mood of the song, YOU decide the emotional gravity of the song, all from an annoynmous perch just left of the drummer.

I do that anyway regardless of the strings I use. Glad it's working out for you but let's not get carried away

kimokeo · #6 12-02-2009, 10:35 AM

Nothing wrong with flats. However, IMO, rounds give more flexibility and overall tone.

unclekebm · #7 12-02-2009, 10:41 AM

I agree with Jimmy -

yet, eloquently stated...

rumblefish · #8 12-02-2009, 10:45 AM

Well there was a bit of hyperbole in my post, I'm not really a fanatic. I still have one bass set up with rounds and another with flats. Its just that the thud of an F is so concussive with flats, the impact on the audience is subliminal but they feel it in their gut.
I'm not dissing anyone who loves rounds, more power to you.
Now back to my annonymous perch.

JimmyM · #9 12-02-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumblefish

Well there was a bit of hyperbole in my post, I'm not really a fanatic. I still have one bass set up with rounds and another with flats. Its just that the thud of an F is so concussive with flats, the impact on the audience is subliminal but they feel it in their gut.
I'm not dissing anyone who loves rounds, more power to you.
Now back to my annonymous perch.

Eh, I can dig...you're excited about it, and you should be. It's a bit of a revelation if you never did it before.

bass player 48 · #10 12-02-2009, 11:03 AM

This is yet another thread that makes me want to try flats. I've been playing about 10 years and I've never tried them... but sometimes I read something that makes me think I should.

What I want is a nice round thick bass sound that has definition and cuts. I still use rounds because I think they'll give me better definition and help me cut. I do admit Led Zep / JPJ is one of my idealized bass tones and I know that's flats.

The last post talks about the smack in the gut. I've wondered how to achieve that, as have band mates I've played with. So far I've thought the only way to get that "hit's you in the gut" thing was to play with a good sound man who runs you through a cross over and pumps your lows through the subs. I can kind of get that low smack in the gut thing by bumping up my low EQ - but then my sound completely disapears in the mix as I move up the neck.

Hmm. Now I'm wondering - which flats for a nice JPJones inspired sound with a side order of 'smacks you in the gut'?

guroove · #11 12-02-2009, 11:15 AM

It depends on a lot more than just what kind of strings you use. Some instruments will be brighter with flats than another instrument with rounds. The P-bass I just got rid of had so much in-your-face mid range punch with rounds, that flats definitely would have helped in the situation you are talking about. I find that with my Coppolo-built jazz bass, that flats just kill the sound, and I like the zing from the rounds to cut through the mix with 3 horns, a guitar, and 6 of us singing. For the most part, I tend to agree with you though.

lowregister · #12 12-02-2009, 11:17 AM

odin70 · #13 12-02-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass player 48

I do admit Led Zep / JPJ is one of my idealized bass tones and I know that's flats.

Are you sure?

bass player 48 · #14 12-02-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odin70

Are you sure?

Well, that's what I've read here at Talkbass... that Jones played flats. Could be wrong, I don't know.

odin70 · #15 12-02-2009, 11:37 AM

I have read that i used Rotosound rounds. There is an old tread about that somewhere here. However i must admit that a lot of his work sounds very flatish e.g Dazed and confused etc.

By the way..real men plays flats.

One Drop · #16 12-02-2009, 11:40 AM

I love flats too, but my rounds equipped Ps get plenty of bottom and punch, and I never sound anything like a guitar with them. There are many ways to skin a cat, and I find Rotos and DR Lo-Riders flay them well enough for me in the right situation. Big rigs help me a lot, too, and through a good PA I don't feel I lack anything either.

JimmyM · #17 12-02-2009, 12:01 PM

JPJ said that a lot of people think he used flats but he didn't like them.

Basshappi · #18 12-02-2009, 12:20 PM

The more things change........

Back in the day, when I was a baby bassplayer and the great mammoths strode the ice-covered plains, I and every other bassplayer I came in contact with or read about (there were no personal computers much less the internet in those days of yore) hated flats and were abandoning them in droves.

Rotosounds were like the great monolith in 2001: A Space Odessey and we were the yammering ape-men lured to and enlightened by the mystical and mesmerizing "roundwound sound". Guitarists and soundmen across the land cowered in fear of our new and mighty presence in the mix!

But slowly and stealthily, seething up from the stygian darkness like some thrice-cursed and diabolical cult of the Elder gods whom men, blinded by the starry glitter of their safe and comfortable modern world believed to have perished from the earth in aeons-haunted antiquity, crept Flatwounds. Aided by the foul works of their zealous and bestial servants they have begun to corrupt once more the hearts of men!

R. Laevinus · #19 12-02-2009, 12:54 PM

Basshappi: AWESOME.

(I use flats.)

Jim C · #20 12-02-2009, 01:12 PM

Great post
I started using flats again maybe 1 year ago and have thought that I might not go back
I think "bass maturity" was an ecxecellant desciption about how flats helps to force the way a bass sits in the mix, and, that a bright zingy tone may sound good on it's own and allow one to be heard more easily, but does not necessarily mean that it contributes a mopre musical tonality to the song

Ironicaly, I played an old J bass of mine 2 days ago that had old steel roundwounds; it sounded much too bright compared to my current tone; turned the treble down on the amp and nolw have a very similar tone but with more midrange growl; can't wait to try it at rehearsal tomorrow

As stated above; don't throw out the baby with the bathwater; rounds can sound warm, dead, thuddy, etc with extreme EQ and still allow for some midrange subtleties that you might not find with flats (IMO)