What strings for THIS sound? (listen to link)

[JacoNOT]

can I get some STRING suggestions?

Here's the sound I'm looking for: "Tracey Thorn's Why Does the Wind". To my ear, a basic BASS sound - nothing fancy, just deep, even, primary bass tones.


I found some YouTube examples of Rotosound Tru Bass 88 nylon tape wounds, but those things are sooo dark.

What about GHS Pressure Wound Flats? They aren't exactly "flats" and are made of "Alloy 52" which, as I understand it, is harder than nickle but is not stainless steel. (I'm also considering them for a fretless with rosewood fretboard. Not sure what "Alloy 52" will do to an unprotected/unepoxied fretboard...)

This YouTube vid makes me think GHS Pressure Wound Flats might be the perfect versatile crossover between flat and round. What do you guys think...?


I have an ESP LTD B-205sm 5-string with 3-way active EQ. My first bass. It came with SIT strings (medium light power wound, nickle) that sound too metallic. I assume they're cheap round wounds, with lots of interesting overtones (I guess) but even with EQ set to Bass=10 Mid=0 Treb=0 there's still a lot of metallic sound.

I don't know how to get specific sounds out of this bass yet - experimenting with right hand location, EQ settings and lots of left-hand practice for precise fretting. I would appreciate ANY suggestions for how to dial in sounds representing the more traditional bass role.

Thanks

[darkstorm]

Get your bass set up and adjust the pups for best sound to yhou and use the eq. New strings have some clank to them. Many peeps love the new string sound. Sounds like you want either flats or unusuually warm rounds. For the latter, dr sunbeams are good choice. Not much treble content to them. Also after doing set up including adjusting pups. Shift your pup blend somewhat toward the neck pup.

[JacoNOT]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Get your bass set up and adjust the pups...New strings have some clank to them...Sounds like you want either flats or unusuually warm rounds. For the latter, dr sunbeams are good choice. Not much treble content to them. Also...shift your pup blend somewhat toward the neck pup.

Thanks, DS. I love fixes that don't involve me spending more cash

I will do as you say re setup and favoring the neck pickup. I'm just beginning my "bass learning curve" and maybe after a month or two these SITs will have lost their "clank" (lol..."clank" describes it pretty well).

If they're still clankin' after that, I should have a better idea of what other strings to try by then.

Y'know, I'm surprised at how LOOSE my 5 bass strings feel - some more than others. I realize they're not a balanced-tension set, but if I just pat them lightly with an open hand they slap right up against the frets. Clank! The action is nice and low, but that just seems wrong...

Any advice appreciated.

[soulman969]

I play GHS Pressure Wounds on a Jazz Bass and I'd say they could give you a tone very similar to what you listened to on that recording. PWounds have a mellow tonality like a flatwound but without the thumpy muddier bottom of some. They articulate very well even on the low E.

The other thing you're hearing is that growl coming from his low E string. Several different types of basses, including a Jazz Bass, will give you that but it's inherent in a Jazz. Setup and EQ will have a lot to do with it as well. It also sounds to me like the bass was recorded direct into the board which would pick up the nuances you heard much better than you're likely to hear coming live from your amp.

The great thing about Pressure Wounds is how extremely versatile they are tonally. They're very responsive to changes in EQ and pickups blends. You can get a brighter tone from them much like you would with a round but without the harshness or zing, or you can go the other direction like you hear in this recording and get a tonality that's' mellower and more similar to a flatwound.

Check out bassstringsonline.com. Let Jason know your a TB member and you can order a set for around $20 and try them out for yourself. I play everything from classic rock and soul tunes to blues and country rock and I love the tonal versatility I get. I can always find a way to fit them into the mix.

[Duckwater]

Broken in pressurewounds or flats played with a pick will get you that tone for sure.

[gottawalk]

There's a lot more people out here that have more experience than I, and these guys have great ears and ideas. My other thought is that when you are trying things out, it sounds like the bassist is using a pic to get that attack. Also, look into compression on the sound, too. There's a lot of things going on just to get a tone. Strings are a great start, though. Good luck. Cool sound. I like it!

[JacoNOT]

Originally Posted by soulman969

I play GHS Pressure Wounds on a Jazz Bass and I'd say they could give you a tone very similar to what you listened to on that recording. PWounds have a mellow tonality like a flatwound but without the thumpy muddier bottom of some. They articulate very well even on the low E.

Thanks, soulman. I think the PowerWounds are what I should try next, and I appreciate hearing from someone who's using them. With an even lower B, I hope they articulate and growl on that, as well.

Originally Posted by soulman969

The other thing you're hearing is that growl coming from his low E string. Several different types of basses, including a Jazz Bass, will give you that but it's inherent in a Jazz. Setup and EQ will have a lot to do with it as well. It also sounds to me like the bass was recorded direct into the board which would pick up the nuances you heard much better than you're likely to hear coming live from your amp.

Thanks for breaking it down in technical terms. I think I can imitate that Jazz Bass character once I figure things out a bit. I've got active 3-band EQ on the bass, a good outboard compressor/limiter and my primary interest is recording - the bass will go direct through Native Instruments GuitarRig4 (so many amps, cabinets and effects that I can't wrap my brain around all the possibilies). There should be some combination that does the trick.

Originally Posted by soulman969

The great thing about Pressure Wounds is how extremely versatile they are tonally. They're very responsive to changes in EQ and pickups blends. You can get a brighter tone from them much like you would with a round but without the harshness or zing, or you can go the other direction like you hear in this recording and get a tonality that's' mellower and more similar to a flatwound..

Ahhhh "music to my ears"... Thanks.

Originally Posted by soulman969

Check out bassstringsonline.com. Let Jason know your a TB member and you can order a set for around $20 and try them out for yourself. I play everything from classic rock and soul tunes to blues and country rock and I love the tonal versatility I get. I can always find a way to fit them into the mix.

GREAT! Thanks for the discount information, and for explaining the variety of styles you play. I write/compose and decided to learn to play bass as a way of expanding my awareness of rhythm, groove and harmonic structure - so I want to be able to cover as many musical styles as possible.

It's funny. I wanted a bass as "a tool", but it's starting to take over - becoming a whole new perspective, focus, philosophy (way of life? ). JacoP joked about "Women, children and rhythm section first!" I'm beginning to get it and my guitars feel like "wimpy little things" now. Uh oh...

[JacoNOT]

Originally Posted by Duckwater

Broken in pressurewounds or flats played with a pick will get you that tone for sure.

Originally Posted by gottawalk

...My other thought is that when you are trying things out, it sounds like the bassist is using a pic to get that attack. Also, look into compression on the sound, too. There's a lot of things going on just to get a tone. Strings are a great start, though.

Thanks to you both. I wondered if the bassist was using a pick, and you guys seem to have cleared that point up. If I'm not mistaken, you're saying that bassist likely used FLATS played with a pick... and maybe I can get a similar tone from older Pressurewounds played finger style. I'm learning finger style (I-M) and don't think I want to use a pick at all (could be wrong).

I thought the bassist might be using a pick because the attack seems kind of abrupt and punchy, but then the bass part is so integrated with the kick and snare that I have a hard time distinguishing drum attack from bass note attack...

[JacoNOT]

I posted a new related thread HERE because I think maybe my RIGHT-HAND FINGERNAILS are a big part of the high frequency sound I don't like. They make an initial 'clack' sound when I play each string, and so far I can't seem to hide/avoid it...

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Sounds like a short scale hollowbody.... Hofner beatle bass?

Tapewounds will give you a tubby sound like that as well...

You can hear what I mean on this track... at 1:45 you get to hear the bass solo...
Deerhoof - Fresh Born (Live from Juan's Basement) - YouTube

[JacoNOT]

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

Sounds like a short scale hollowbody.... Hofner beatle bass? Tapewounds will give you a tubby sound like that as well... You can hear what I mean on this track... at 1:45 you get to hear the bass solo...
Deerhoof - Fresh Born (Live from Juan's Basement) - YouTube

Thanks for the link (interesting presentation). I like the bass sound and wish she'd show it off a little more. Still, she plays enough for me to understand your point. Thanks.


ALSO, since you're the owner of BassStringsOnline.com, can I ask you two questions about GHS PressureWounds?

Q1. I have a 5-string fretted bass. Do you think the GHS PressureWounds are versatile enough to get the sound I'm after (per link in my original post)?

Q2. I want to purchase a FRETLESS 5-string. The GHS PressureWounds are not actually FLATwound (seem to be sorta flattened roundwounds...). I don't want to chew up the fretless rosewood fretboard. Will GHS PressureWounds eat the fretboard like ROUNDwounds would, or will they be 'kinder and gentler' like FLATwounds would?

[SLaPiNFuNK]

You can get that sound out of PressureWounds... But would need to do some palm muting as well. No problem!

I was originally turned onto Pressure Wound strings in 1998 using Ken Smith Compressors on my 6 String Fretless Ken Smith. It has an unfinished ebony fingerboard and I was too concerned with "chewing" up the board.

The fact is, any vibrating material that you have on any type of softer material surface is going to show some signs of wear over time. I see grooves start to form on my double bass with flatwound strings on its ebony fingerboard, just as I see them form on electric basses with flatwounds, but the process is slower than with a more aggressive roundwound string.

So yes if you are looking for a string that will wear your fingerboard slower than pressurewound type strings will be a great option for you. And if the quality of the material used to make your fingerboard is good, it should last a while no matter what you use.

This image those the difference between a Round Wound / Pressure Wound (Compression Wound) / Half-Round (Slick-Round) string. You can see the wider surface area of the pressure wound which has less of an effect on the fingerboard than a sharper more precise point of the Round Wounds for example.

[JacoNOT]

SLaPiNFuNK ==

Thanks for the informative post (pics and everything!)

So you're saying ANY string vibrating against a wood fingerboard WILL eat the wood surface to some extent over time...right?

- FLATwound does slowest damage.
- PRESSUREwound does medium damage.
- ROUNDwound does fastest damage.

My understanding is that ebony is harder than rosewood, so if you're seeing 'snake tracks' beginning to form on your double bass with ebony fingerboard and flatwound strings, I should expect to see similar tracks earlier on a (softer) rosewood fingerboard playing (less flat) Powerwound strings. Am I right?

Are you still using PressureWounds on your Ken Smith 6-string fretless? If so, have you been using them continuously since 1998? How does the fingerboard look today?

As for "Palm muting, no problem": That does not apply to me. Man, I'm struggling to learn, and simple "floating thumb" is a challenge at the moment.

That HALFround Slick Round string looks like it'd do the least damage of the three. I'll go on your website to begin researching it...

[SLaPiNFuNK]

I am actually on Jury Duty this week, seated on a 2 week trial! So I apologize for the delayed responses...

Yes, basically anything you are going to use is going to, flatwound / roundwound / pressurewound / half-round is going to have wear on the fingerboard. Even if you use no strings at all and continuously touch your fingerboard, you are going to wear it over time.

The amount of wear caused by the strings is going to vary on your grip (gorilla grip or feather touch), the amount of vibrato (rolling or shaking), and if you are bending strings or not (i would hope on a fretless you would slide more than bend though! ((thats what i want to hear at least))...

Just because a string is "flat" in appearance like a half-round does not mean it is not going to have more or less wear on a fingerboard. The edges of halfrounds start out pretty sharp and rough (after all they are machined) after you play them a bit they start to smoothen out and feel softer and smoother to the touch.

On my fretless smith, I slap / pop / and fingerstyle on it. I used compression wounds for years and then as I stopped playing it as much i switched to light gauge stainless steel round wounds... Currently I have a set of Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats on it which windings are fairly spaced out so you see grooves from the windings where they make contact with the fingerboard. There are no trails under the strings, but you certainly see fretless marks. Fingerboard is in 9/10 condition and does not have any artificial sounds from any of its wear.

IMHO - of the 3 types of strings, I would go Pressurewound on a fretless, you get the best of both worlds with the least amount of aggressiveness for the sound it produces...

The basic difference between the Ken Smith Compressors and GHS Pressurewounds is the length...

If your instrument will accept a 36.5" string then go GHS Pressurewounds, if you need a longer string the 38" windings of the Ken Smith compressors will be required. Also the Ken Smith B is Tapered and depending on your bridge this may make for a better installation and better overal responsive string. Both are great strings.

SIT Silencers is also an option which are Nickel Plated Steel strings so they have a little softer tone than the Nickel Iron Alloy's (alloy 52) of the GHS / Ken Smith.

You should also look into the Bass Strings Online discussion thread in my sig for some more information about my site.

Back to Jury Duty for a few more hours!

[JacoNOT]

Jury duty? How'd you get so lucky...?

Actually, I hope you take it totally seriously. Jury selection these days tries to rule out everyone who isn't a totally uninformed IDIOT (I do not mean you ). If a person knows ANYTHING about ANYTHING, they try to exclude him - and as a result, in too many instances society receives stupid verdicts from empaneled MORONS who are the only jurors acceptable to attorneys who focus on winning, not "justice". (soapbox rant!!!).

I found this post on the Ken Smith Slick Round strings. Based on that and your remarks, I think I'll try the GHS PressureWounds as planned.

You wrote: "...of the 3 types of strings, I would go Pressurewound on a fretless, you get the best of both worlds with the least amount of aggressiveness for the sound it produces..."

That's good to hear, especially from "he who sells bass stings". I don't have the fretless yet, and will keep an ear to the ground until I do - but it looks like I'll buy a set of GHS Powerwounds right off the bat - the bass I want comes with ROUNDwounds over a fretless ROSEWOOD neck (planned obsolescence?). If you know of an even better string for this application, please clue me in.

BTW, I read something about TI Jazz Flats being great on fretless, so I did a little research. After picking myself up off the floor ($100ish for 5-string set!) I decided Ken Smith strings are not so expensive after all. Yikes.

I called the mfr's customer service dept sure they could tell me what string length I need...but no, they mumbled and guessed, and couldn't tell me what my current-model bass requires for string length (sheesh ) It's 34" scale, strung thru-body, and that's what clouds the issue. I'll have to pull the longest (A) string and measure it.

I appreciate your help, and you can be sure I'll set up an online account at BassStringsOnline.com with a comment asking for "TB Forum VIP pricing"

[soulman969]

I don't think you'll be unhappy with Pressure Wounds. I played rounds for years on all of my basses but PBasses and I was a happy camper. About 6 months ago I bought a Jazz Bass that the owner had strung with flats and flats just rob too much tonal range from a JBass IMHO so I needed a change.

Jason and I spoke about some round wound choices on the mellower side and among them he suggested these GHS Pressure Wounds. They were perfect. Bit of a round wound feel and great tonal range and expression. Good clarity and definition but no zing or harshness to wear off like you need to do with many rounds. Even darker ones.

I love this string on a Jazz Bass and if I had to eliminate all of the other choices but one this style string is what I would stick with for my style of playing. About all they can't so is give you that ultra bright slap tone some players want. Other than that the cover the tonal spectrum quite well.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Yeah Jury Duty... :-/ So exhausting!

Literally Slick Rounds (and any "Half Round" string) is going to have a break in period. I know someone who has had the same set of SlickRounds on his P-Bass for 3 years and they feel just as smooth as flats. They really need to be worn in so the edges that have been machined can smoothen out. They can't polish them smooth since that will put further wear and add gunk to the string....

I tell you this not as someone who wants to sell a set of strings, I tell you this as a fellow bass player and my experiences with them as a user. If you choose to buy them great, if not, I hope you find something you like! Hopefully buy from me of course I would appreciate that!

The Jazz Flats are great on the fretless, I have gigged a few times with them. Very midrange punchy, great growl and muah... They are pretty up there in cost, but you won't be changing them that often if ever.... (but you didn't hear that from me)...

Nothing wrong with Rosewood as a fretless fingerboard. There are rosewoods with different densities however so hopefully you have a better quality piece of rosewood that will last longer. You can always have the fingerboard epoxied further down the road...

I did look up the instrument and saw that it is a 34" scale instrument. If it is infact a Thru-Body instrument you are going to need to use longer strings than the GHS. The GHS are only 36.5" from Ball End to Silk. The Ken Smith Compressors are 38" from Ball End to Silk however the B string is about 37.25" and tapered, you will need to measure the ball end to the bridge saddle on the instrument (remove the string) and see the length to figure out if you can even use this B string. You may need to go SIT Silencers which have a 37.25" winding Ball End to end of the useable winding. Of course this is only if you are forced to use Thru-Body only. if you can string through the bridge and not go through he body... do that! You obviously don't want the endless sustain that they claim you get from going thru-body anyway if you want a tone like the video...

It will be best to mark with a sharpy the B string at the nut and at the top of the saddle. remove the string and measure ball end to the markings so we can figure out if and what string will work thru-body... But like I said, I would just use the bridge topload option only, use what ever strings you want and call it a day...

[JacoNOT]

Originally Posted by soulman969

I don't think you'll be unhappy with Pressure Wounds...Jason and I spoke about some round wound choices on the mellower side and among them he suggested these GHS Pressure Wounds. They were perfect. Bit of a round wound feel and great tonal range and expression. Good clarity and definition but no zing or harshness to wear off like you need to do with many rounds.

About all they can't so is give you that ultra bright slap tone some players want. Other than that the cover the tonal spectrum quite well.

That's good news. The fretless I want is actually a fretless version of what I have now. When I get it, I'll probably yank the roundwound SITs that come standard, and replace with GHS PressureWounds (if by then I'm sure PWs are "the fix"). If I like them on fretless, I'll replace the SITs rounds on the fretted bass, too. Or if $ is a big issue, when my existing strings deaden I could get by for a while longer by restringing the fretted with the unused SITs from the fretless (not likely, but possible...). I'm pretty sure both basses come with the same stock SIT strings. Thanks, SoulMan969.

[JacoNOT]

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

...Hopefully buy from me of course I would appreciate that!

I'm on board. I like buying from sources that assist me in purchasing what solves my problem. YOU ARE THAT GUY

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

The Jazz Flats are great on the fretless...Very midrange punchy, great growl and muah... They are pretty up there in cost, but you won't be changing them that often if ever.... (but you didn't hear that from me)...

I might pursue that with you privately then.

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

Nothing wrong with Rosewood as a fretless fingerboard. There are rosewoods with different densities however so hopefully you have a better quality piece of rosewood that will last longer. You can always have the fingerboard epoxied further down the road...

Thanks. The fretless I'm considering is a $400 instrument, so I won't be surprised if its fretboard is not the best rosewood specimen. On the other hand, the fretted version I have now appears to have a nice, tight even grain...so who knows. I'm surprised at the high quality of some low-cost electric guitars and basses.

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

I did look up the instrument and saw that it is a 34" scale instrument. If it is in fact a Thru-Body instrument you are going to need to use longer strings than the GHS. The GHS are only 36.5" from Ball End to Silk...if you can string through the bridge and not go through he body... do that! You obviously don't want the endless sustain that they claim you get from going thru-body anyway if you want a tone like the video...

I'd like to go thru-body if possible. My bass headstock is shaped like the pic below with the A-string post furthest from the nut.

I'm going to mark the B-string, pull it and measure it as you suggest. I'll post a photo of my headstock with dimensions, so hopefully you can tell me with certainty whether GHS PressureWound string lengths will work.

I found THIS THREAD and am again "LoSt iN tHe saUcE"... It seems (to me) the GHS PW length of 36.50" from ball end to silk wrap will work (I only need about 35.75" to cross over the nut)*...but the other thread mentions how the extra wrap layer(?) on the B-string shouldn't end up on the tuner post...so I'll just post the headstock photo and see if you can tell me what's what...

Thanks for all this nuts-and-bolts detail. I thought buying strings would be simple...

*EDIT: It turns out that the string length from ball end to nut when strung thru-body is 36-5/8" which appears to be 1/8" longer than the GHS PressureWound ballend-to-silkwrap measurement of 36.5"...that's IF I understand any of this...

[darkstorm]

Lower the treble control on the bass.

Its also best sound wise to not boost more then about halfway for bass and mids. Next you'll need to adjust the action and pups after that. For the latter your probably gonna prefer the neck and bridge pups about the same distance from strings or with bridge pup a bit lower then neck pup. Ok, alls set up, now also tilt the pup balance blend control a little bit toward the neck.

Being ash and maple bass Id suggest DR sunbeams for warmer sound but still excellent low end difinition and useable top end.

But again, boosting bass and leaving treble flat will do nothing to eliminate unwanted treble content & mettalic top string sound. Thats done via lowering the treble control. Most roundwound users like some top end crispness. Some even like musical fret rattle metals, lol.. You however will prob want to set up bass as close to medium action to medium low as possible. Giving less or no fret rattle/buzz.

Your bass is capable as it for that type of sound your wanting. Is nice bass