When did roundwounds arrive on the scene?

[Toronto Bassist]

One thing that I'm curious about is that when you listen to older rock (beatles, yardbirds, stones, etc.) and r & b (motown, stax, etc.) electric bass is that the tubby thump of flatwounds seems to have been the dominant choice of string - maybe the only choice. But through the 70s (like maybe Yes' first album), you start hearing roundwounds more. Were they just invented at that point, or did people just decide to start giving them a try? If they were invented at that point, what's the story behind them?

[Jaydin Nathan]

John Entwistle, the bassist from The Who was looking for a brighter, more 'hi-fi' sound, and collaborated with Rotosound, who eventually created roundwound strings.

[chanson]

Yup. So much of modern bass playing is owed to The Ox.

[bassforce]

Wasn't it Chris Squire from Yes?
I've read, that he had problems with his old rickenbackers, because their necks couldn't stand tension of roundwounds.

[Jaydin Nathan]

Originally Posted by bassforce

Wasn't it Chris Squire from Yes?

Nope. Although Chris Squire exclusively used the brand Rotosound.

Originally Posted by bassforce

I've read, that he had problems with his old rickenbackers, because their necks couldn't stand tension of roundwounds.

Do you mean flatwounds?

[JimmyM]

Nope, he means rounds. The 4003 is supposed to be a Ric with a reinforced neck that can take rounds. I don't get it myself, but apparently that's the story. I don't know the exact year they were invented, but I would guess late 60's.

[One Drop]

I can understand there having been some problems on earlier Rics going to a high tension round like Rotosounds from the very light guage Rickenbacker flats that used to come stock.

BTW, Rotosound rounds existed from 1962, but the Swingbass RS66 set that Entwistle collaborated on the design of were the ones that became famous, and probably were the first set that bassists bought aftermarket and that helped popularize rounds in general.

Rotosound is being a bit disingenious in their marketing descriptions, IMO, by the way they make it seem the strings Entwistle developed were the same as the original rounds they created in '62, not to take anything away from what is still an enormous achievement. They are still an unique and incredible sounding string set that deserves their popularity.

I've also gleaned that Danelectro made some skinny rounds that shipped on their basses in the early '60s. Those and the Rotos are the two earliest I've read about.

I have a feeling that rounds became popular at different times in different places. I'm guessing they were more common earlier in the UK, but I'm not sure about that.

[TomB]

Originally Posted by One Drop

BTW, Rotosound rounds existed from 1962, but the Swingbass RS66 set that Entwistle collaborated on the design of were the ones that became famous, and probably were the first set that bassists bought aftermarket and that helped popularize rounds in general.

Rotosound is being a bit disingenious in their marketing descriptions, IMO, by the way they make it seem the strings Entwistle developed were the same as the original rounds they created in '62, not to take anything away from what is still an enormous achievement. They are still an unique and incredible sounding string set that deserves their popularity.

I've also gleaned that Danelectro made some skinny rounds that shipped on their basses in the early '60s. Those and the Rotos are the two earliest I've read about.

I have a feeling that rounds became popular at different times in different places. I'm guessing they were more common earlier in the UK, but I'm not sure about that.

I'm really glad you added this info. The conventional wisdom on this seems to be the Ox - circa 1970 version of the stoty, but I recall personally buying a set of Black Diamond roundwounds in about '67 or so. They were horrible, but they were cheap . Never again until some time in the '70's for me.

I'd agree that both Entwhistle and Squires, among others, caught our attention with their bright clarity and sent many of us off on an endless tone quest that included rounds. Roto Sound did lead the charge, and also were first w/the exposed core idea.

Then Acoustic amps came along, but that's another thread .

[Toronto Bassist]

That's interesting. Especially because it seems to me that (at least to my ears) John Paul Jones sounds like he's using flats, even after rounds were popular. If so, guess he just liked the sound better.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Toronto Bassist

That's interesting. Especially because it seems to me that (at least to my ears) John Paul Jones sounds like he's using flats, even after rounds were popular. If so, guess he just liked the sound better.

John Paul Jones claims he used rounds on the Zeppelin albums and people just think he used flats. Personally, I don't hear it because they sound like flats to me.

[62bass]

I can attest that roundwounds were around for bass well before they were "invented" in England. I had a Danelectro Longhorn bass in 1960 that came with roundwound strings. There may have been other basses around at that time with rounds but I don't know about them. The Fenders and Gibsons all came with flats. And I think it was possible to buy Black Diamond roundwounds for bass in long scale around that time. Horrible strings those Black Diamonds.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by 62bass

Horrible strings those Black Diamonds.

And yet, they're still going strong. Go figure. They've been around longer than dirt. Little factory in Sarasota making strings.

[FranF]

1963 is the year Rotosound themselves say was the start.

[Arthur Strand]

I used Roundwounds on my Danelectro Bass in the late 60s early 70s Rotosounds and I use roundwounds nowadays on my Rickenbacker. I saw Yes several times and Chris Squire used roundwounds on his Rick it certainly made a difference from the flatwounds that I had used until then. As for when they were actually first introduced - probably in that era.
You can email Rotosound in Kent to see if they can give you a more specific answer.

[62bass]

Originally Posted by FranF

1963 is the year Rotosound themselves say was the start.

The start for them, but roundwounds for bass were available before then as I said in my earlier post.

[62bass]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

And yet, they're still going strong. Go figure. They've been around longer than dirt. Little factory in Sarasota making strings.

Amazing, and I notice there is a sort of Black Diamond revival going on where the Black Diamond marketing guys are trying to sell them as good strings.

I used to use them in the 50s on guitar before switching to bass. They were cheap for one thing and the easiest to find in an era when there were very few music stores around. I started with them on a Stewart arch top acoustic guitar that I later added a De Armond pickup to. The action was about 1/4" at the 7th fret and got worse farther up. That combined with the very high tension of the Black Diamond strings made learning a rather painful experience. But I was young and could do anything then. I got my first good guitar in 1957-a gold top Les Paul with whatever strings Gibson used then. What a difference. I think that guitar sold for about $325 Canadian with a hardshell case. A lot of money in those days.

[JimmyM]

I used them once when I was a kid on my Mosrite Ventures guitar because the store up the street only carried Black Diamonds. After that, I used to make my parents take me to the mall half an hour away to get strings. Sometimes I get curious about them and want to try them on bass, then I compare the price to D'addarios in a 2-pack and I forget about it

[ibnzneksrul]

Originally Posted by TomB

I'd agree that both Entwhistle and Squires, among others, caught our attention with their bright clarity and sent many of us off on an endless tone quest that included rounds.

Personally, I'd add John Wetton to that short list also, as a bassist who influenced me to switch to rounds in the late 70s.

[joeman583]

I think we can say it was John Entwistle with the help of Rotosound. Rotosound were previously already making roundwound strings prior to Entwistle's request for a string that would sound like the low notes on a grand-piano.


Hope this link might help:


http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/equipm...gear-misc.html

[DavePlaysBass]

I think JPJ sounds like he using flats because he played at times with his right hand just over the end of the fretboard. And who knows where he had the tone control at.