Why Not Solid, Plain Wire?

[Russell L]

Am I nuts? But, what would it be like to play plain bass strings? I mean, big ole fat plain wire. Is there any reason not to? I guess this is the same as asking what it is that winding does for a string. So, I'm curious why all our strings are wound as opposed to plain. Who can answer?

[Rickett Customs]

My guess would be that bass string sized wire would not be as pliable or flexible, much more rigid and possibly more frail.

[ffutterman]

I'm guessing it'd be like the difference between flicking a slinky and flicking a lead pipe. The winding makes the string more spring-like, which allows it to vibrate a little more freely.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by Rickett Customs

My guess would be that bass string sized wire would not be as pliable or flexible, much more rigid and possibly more frail.

Well, bass strings ARE wire. I'm talking about using musical wire. I guess what I'm asking is, why are our strings wound? Maybe I'll unwind some old ones and put 'em on and see what they do.

[Rickett Customs]

Originally Posted by Russell L

Well, bass strings ARE wire. I'm talking about using musical wire. I guess what I'm asking is, why are our strings wound? Maybe I'll unwind some old ones and put 'em on and see what they do.

Yes, "musical wire" was what I'd be referring to as well.

What you'll find when you unwind your string is the lack of mass, the cores of strings are not very large, depending on the brand of strings, It may or may not be an actual round core either, might be hard on your fingers and vibrate slightly weaker with less mass. IIRC the windings are not so hard on the fingers, thus one of the reasons for the windings, other than mass.

[Russell L]

Yeah, I realize that without the winding the guage will be smaller. But, just say you could get plain musical wire at 0.50-0.105." Some cores are even hexagonal (how do they do that?). I bet that would feel bad, huh? So, what would less mass sound like?

[knuckle_head]

A plain wire - as stated earlier in the thread - will be very rigid and won't offer the overtone series we know as bass.

In theory we could get away with a thinner overall string diameter, but enlarging the core alone is enough to shift wound strings into unpleasant tonal territory.

There would be equal mass at a smaller diameter - no free lunch.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

A plain wire - as stated earlier in the thread - will be very rigid and won't offer the overtone series we know as bass.

In theory we could get away with a thinner overall string diameter, but enlarging the core alone is enough to shift wound strings into unpleasant tonal territory.

There would be equal mass at a smaller diameter - no free lunch.

Now that's interesting.

[ehque]

At .105, you've move on from talking about steel wire to talking about steel rods.

Those things would be so stiff they would never vibrate properly at regular tensions and playing styles.

The cores need to be thin to vibrate properly. The wraps simply add mass, which according to the string equation, allows for higher tension. Using the core without the wraps would result in unacceptably low tension.

[dhsierra1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strings_(music)

You can get hexagonal cores by extrusion of a string through a hexagonal (or almost any other shape, really) die.

[Jay2U]

Imagine a solid B-string. They would be sold in a 40" long package, too large to be sent by any regular mail service. You would need some pneumatic tool to wind it. It's just too solid. Wound strings have the flexibility to resonate, still being heavy enough to do this at the desired low frequencies. More flexible materials, like nylon can be solid.

[Shoewreck]

How would they pack a set of bass guitar rods? Wouldn't it break on a tuning machine?
I recently did a similar experiment - used a steel rope instead of a string. Resembled much a flatwound, quite thumpy.

[teleharmonium]

I'm not a big fan of the tone of the unwound strings in guitar sets. But they are compatible enough in sound that they work when we play lines that cross from unwound to wound strings.

Because the difference bugs me, on guitar I do make small adjustments to pick closer to the neck when I cross over going up, or the other way going down.

Those unwound strings sound kind of glassy, it's not my preference if I have my druthers, but someone else could prefer them over wound strings. It probably would be a distinctive tone, even if they weren't that fun to play.

The unwound strings are the first to go, they are almost always steel from Sweden that is given a thin plating, maybe for a more expensive bass set a thicker or different plating could be done. Not a home brew job, though, for most of us !

[teleharmonium]

Originally Posted by Jay2U

Imagine a solid B-string. They would be sold in a 40" long package, too large to be sent by any regular mail service. You would need some pneumatic tool to wind it. It's just too solid. Wound strings have the flexibility to resonate, still being heavy enough to do this at the desired low frequencies. More flexible materials, like nylon can be solid.

Theoretically, if the motivation was strong enough, the length of solid string could be specified to just the right amount, including the fore and afterlength, and the string could be built with more flexible material joined for the rest to allow it to be installed, not unlike the purpose of the threads that flatwound strings require.

I ain't doing it, I'm just saying.

If someone actually went to the trouble, I'd at least be willing to listen to a clip of it on the internet.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by ehque

At .105, you've move on from talking about steel wire to talking about steel rods.

Those things would be so stiff they would never vibrate properly at regular tensions and playing styles.

The cores need to be thin to vibrate properly. The wraps simply add mass, which according to the string equation, allows for higher tension. Using the core without the wraps would result in unacceptably low tension.

I'm understanding that whole concept. Now that I think about it, it would be about the size of some welding rods laying around the shop.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strings_(music)

You can get hexagonal cores by extrusion of a string through a hexagonal (or almost any other shape, really) die.

Thanks for that.