Best strings for Arco and Pizzicato

GCbass · #1 01-04-2007, 09:28 PM

When we have to play both style of music i.e classical and jazz
what is for you the best "hybrid" strings for arco and pizz.
I don't have the luxury of having 2 contrebass.

also

What is your opinion on the Belcanto Thomastik strings

Thanks
Gil

arnoldschnitzer · #2 01-05-2007, 07:11 AM

If I may jump in here...I think I have experienced every string made, through my work as both a luthier and bassist. IMHO the two "crossover" strings worth considering are the Pirastro Obligato and the D'Addario Hybrid. Each has its share of both positives and shortcomings. The Obligatos tend to have longevity problems and the lower strings roll a bit under the bow. The Hybrids were notoriously terrible in their early days, but have improved considerably. They bow and pizz pretty well; the pizz sound is a bit dark for some players. The BelCantos are strictly for bowing, though you could probably use the G in a jazz setting. When I was a student I had the same problem as you. The only choice then was Spirocore or Flexicore. I went with the Spirocores. Nobody wanted to share a stand with me in orchestra...

b1644 · #3 01-05-2007, 12:23 PM

Gil,

I'm not Patrick Neher, and I'm eagerly awaiting his comments here, but I've had Bel Canto's on my dual-purpose bass for a couple of weeks now and just last night, played my first jazz gig with them, so I'll offer my 2-cents...

In My Opinion, the BC's are GREAT for classical playing but merely tolerable for jazz. They bow very well but are quite a lot darker-sounding than the Spirocore (Weich), Obligato's and Kolstein Heritage's I've had on in the past and I miss the "growl" of those strings for jazz.

If I were a 100% classical player I would have no problem sticking with the BC's.

If I were a 100% jazzer, I would certainly be looking for something else (Spiro's, Heritage, Obligato's, in that order).

If the split were 50/50 I think I would go back to Heritage's.

But since my focus at the moment is about 80% classical/20% jazz, the BC's are staying on for a while; at least until the orchestra season winds down. I really like the easy-bowing and clear fundamental of these strings. The slightly dark jazz pizz sound can be compensated for, to some degree, with amp settings but obviously, that's not an option for an unamplified jazz gig.

One last personal observation: pure "orchestra" strings can work OK for jazz but more jazz-oriented strings will not double as well for orchestral playing where their brightness/growl sticks out and increased bowing difficulty (if any) causes problems.

Hope this helps. YMMV of course,

- Martin

Stan Haskins · #4 01-05-2007, 12:44 PM

What do you all think of Pirastro Permanents for that? They're obviously much brighter, but seem to bow well and still have "growl" . . . I was thinking of switching to them, I think BCs or Flexis may be too dark for my bass . ..

PNeher · #5 01-05-2007, 02:34 PM

Some great comments here on strings. As you all know there are hundreds of string types out there these days. I have tried most of them over the past 20 years, but there are new ones lately that I do not know. Those mentioned above I am familiar with and have used at various times. The Neher Mix is G and D, Pirastro Permanent orch. tuned; the A and E, Savarez Corelli medium orchestral (tungsten steel). On MY BASS used for solo, jazz, improvization, electronics enhanced, and classical chamber (orchestra and small ensembles), this mix works great. I love the pizz ringiness, the bright clarity and the full body. Now for classical jazz playing only I would put on the ol' rope cores (like Obligatos, many of them out there) but they suk for classical bowing. I don't like the "roll" in pizz either on the A and E. If I was only playing Bach, I would use Corelli all 'round. So, you can see, I change strings a lot! I only have one bass now.
The best hybrid lately I feel are the D'Addario except the A and E are WAY too tubby for my likes (thick too). The Heritage (Kolstein) are a compromise and seem like a better mix, but I have only experienced them on a student's bass. They were interesting!
The Permanent and Corelli, BTW, I tune any way I want: up a second, third, down a third, whatever.... they seem to take it for about a year.
So good luck my friends... keep trying all you can afford. Find a bassist friend who's instrument is a lot like yours and if you like his/her sound, try those strings! Hope this helps.
PN

Johnny L · #6 01-05-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNeher

...The Neher Mix is G and D, Pirastro Permanent orch. tuned; the A and E, Savarez Corelli medium orchestral (tungsten steel)....

...The Permanent and Corelli, BTW, I tune any way I want: up a second, third, down a third, whatever.... they seem to take it for about a year.

Hello Mr. Neher,

Neat! I was experimenting with 5ths tuning for a little while, and another thread here brought the bass teacher for TCU(?) in the conversation seeking an A string that could be tuned down to G without too much slack. Nobody thought to suggest Corellis at the time.

I tried the Belcanto G and D strings for a little while, and though I thought they had pretty darn good pizz sustain they were too stiff and dark for me and I didn't like my intonation.

I'm using G and D Helicore hybrids again right now and I'm with Mr. Schnitzer...really happy with them right now. But I will try your recommendation next!

b1644 · #7 01-08-2007, 11:52 AM

A follow-up to my earlier post...

I played a more-quiet jazz gig on the weekend and warmed-up to the BC's a bit more, sound-wise at least...

In a drummerless duo/trio setting, the upper-mids and highs were more audible and the overall sound through my small amp was quite thick, meaty, and pleasing (amp info: Rick Turner UB-1 pickup, Raven Labs PMB-I pre, EA iAMP 350 + CXL110 cab).

On the downside, by the second of 3 nights of 3-set gigs, I found the Bel Canto's higher tension noticeably tiring and was fondly recalling breezing through multiple days of long gigs on synthetic core strings like the Obligato and Heritage. Guess I'm just outta shape.

FWIW.

- Martin

GCbass · #8 01-09-2007, 05:40 PM

Thanks Martin,Patrick, Johnny & Arnold for your input
It is well appreciated

alexisbass · #9 02-01-2007, 04:26 PM

Edgar Meyer plays with Spirocore Solo tuned to orchestra if I'm not mistaken.... I was shocked when I saw that, since his arco sound is so awesome. Makes me think: Where is the sound? When I see him I think it's in the player's hands not on the strings... but he's quite a freak anyway (I mean that as a compliment Mr. Meyer, in case you ever read this).

Alexis

TSP · #10 02-01-2007, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexisbass

Edgar Meyer plays with Spirocore Solo tuned to orchestra if I'm not mistaken....

Good grief - on his 38"-scale bass? That would mean they'd be at about 2/3rds of the tension they'd need to be at pitch on my 42.5"-scale bass.

Or is this what he uses on his 5-string to get a similar feel to his smaller bass?

**Francois Blais** · #11 02-01-2007, 07:46 PM

Last I read, he was using Flexocors on the top and Spiros on the bottom, but with an ususual tuning. EAEA maybe?

Johnny L · #12 02-02-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois

Last I read, he was using Flexocors on the top and Spiros on the bottom, but with an ususual tuning. EAEA maybe?

Solo tuning for the top 3 strings, and a low C for the bottom string (he's got an extension).

In the latest Bass Player mag interview, he confesses to using Permanents in place of the Flexocores now.

pao_bass · #13 06-01-2007, 05:08 AM

Spirocores (weichs)... i previously used helicore hybrids. i play both classical and jazz, but pizz sound is my slight priority over arco sound. I've got great sounding pizz right now, slightly better than the helicore hybrids. Arco? I'm pretty much satisfied so far. (I've had the set for a week now) I am playing stuff like bach's 3rd suite, vanhal concerto, etc. on them, and I have no complains. I am even loving the slighly raspy bowed, in your face sound. brighter than the hybrids fyi...

in fact, i can't wait to try them in the orchestra section. I'd like to know how they'll sound

TroyK · #14 06-01-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexisbass

Edgar Meyer plays with Spirocore Solo tuned to orchestra if I'm not mistaken....

Spirocore Solos tuned to Orch pitch are MUCH nicer under the bow than other Spirocores. You almost have to think of them as a different model of string when used that way.

damonsmith · #15 06-04-2007, 01:14 PM

Spriocores + practice is the best formula for what you are after. Helicores are just dead. You might as well use bicycle brake cables.

pao_bass · #16 02-03-2008, 03:21 AM

I think helicore orchestra strings serve as good hybrid strings. Its
because I think helicore hybrids are NOT suitable for orchestra use.

Andrew McGregor · #17 02-03-2008, 03:53 AM

I played for many years in the orchestra on the one set of Spirocore Weichs. Everyone complained that my bass sounded very bright and loud… except that it made the *section* sound great, in the mix of instruments that we had.

koricancowboy · #18 02-03-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Spriocores + practice is the best formula for what you are after. Helicores are just dead. You might as well use bicycle brake cables.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you. (on the Spiros not the helis) There are far better choices for both. Flat chrome steels come to mind if you like that Spiro type zing and sustain for pizz. But they bow like butter. A lot easier under the hand. Permanents and Bel Cantos as well. I only know of one person in a major orchestra who uses spiros. For new music they are ideal but not for orchestral music. Makes you sound like you're trying to be a soloist. YMMV