Determining angle for laborie endpin

[danengland]

Hi Patrick
I am considering getting a labourie*endpin*and would like to ask you a couple of questions:

How did you work out the suitable angle and height (and even if an angled pin was what you wanted)to have the endpin*set at before having the bass drilled?

I am based in the UK and I am not aware of many laborie endpin users here. Do you think that it is possible to get used to an angled endpin without the guidance of a teacher who uses one?

Many thanks
Dan

[PNeher]

Hi Dan,
Thanks for the question
First, I HIGHLY recommend that you consult with someone that has this sort of end pin, face to face, in reference to you, your playing style, your stance, and your bass. There are those in England that have the pin and have studied with Rabbath. I unfortunately cannot think of a one at the moment, but I will inquire with FR.
The angle that I use is "standard" (sort of). Christian Laborie has published this angle in at least one ISB article, and if he has a web site, it should be there. I think it is 44 degrees. I also have it smack in the middle, not turned to either side. So the pin is in line with the back seam of the bass. I like it this way because the bass one normally learns how to balance from a balanced position (both sides having equal mass). Hopefully that makes sense.
The height is so that the nut is in line with my eye or eye brow, when the angle of playing the bass is optimal for the weight of the bow, and the mass of the arms falling on the bass -- "the weight falling through the bass to the floor. (-my quote).
Christian Laborie is amenable to contact about the angles, etc. Contacting him might be helpful, and you could find out if there is anyone in England you should consult with.

BEST!
Patrick

Originally Posted by danengland

Hi Patrick
I am considering getting a labourie*endpin*and would like to ask you a couple of questions:

How did you work out the suitable angle and height (and even if an angled pin was what you wanted)to have the endpin*set at before having the bass drilled?

I am based in the UK and I am not aware of many laborie endpin users here. Do you think that it is possible to get used to an angled endpin without the guidance of a teacher who uses one?

Many thanks
Dan

[PaulCannon]

Originally Posted by PNeher

Hi Dan,
There are those in England that have the pin and have studied with Rabbath. I unfortunately cannot think of a one at the moment, but I will inquire with FR.

Caroline Emery comes to mind. She's based in London.

44 degrees back is standard. If you are particularly tall or if your bass is particularly large, you might consider kicking the angle about 8 degrees toward the G-string side.

[danengland]

That's great,thanks for your replies. I will do as you suggest.
thanks
Dan

[labravajazz]

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

Caroline Emery comes to mind. She's based in London.

44 degrees back is standard. If you are particularly tall or if your bass is particularly large, you might consider kicking the angle about 8 degrees toward the G-string side.

I am also at present in UK and I have as a travelling bass a Laborie Q bass, compact light and surprisingly good tone. It has an angled pin facility and a wooden endpin apparently suitable for my 6'3" height. I am not experienced in this kind of pin and have just tried it since its there as an alternative, but it seems kind of springy being so long! I guess I need to consult with a practitioner of this type of technique - but any other advice out there?

[TonyD]

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

Caroline Emery comes to mind. She's based in London.

44 degrees back is standard. If you are particularly tall or if your bass is particularly large, you might consider kicking the angle about 8 degrees toward the G-string side.

What is the advantage of kicking the angle about 8 degrees towards G-string? I think Rufus Reid has done this also.

[PNeher]

Angling the pin off axis allows the bass to either increase or decrease a certain amount of "spin". In my experience with all sizes of basses and people, I have found that those that do not keep contact of the bass with their belly or waist area, lose control of the bass and it spins out, toward the left. Some compensate with angling the pin toward the G string, as you put it, to make that spin out less strong. To me it generally shows a lack of understanding of the balance that is required between contact with the waist and thumb and floor. When in thumb positions, especially high on the E or A strings, many suffer from the spin out to the left and so they squeeze their body and arm elbow and such around the bass. This fights the whole reason for having a bent endpin in the first place: to allow natural weight of the arms to play the bass, without a lot of muscling going on. So, the easy remedy is to keep your back straight and always keep contact of the bass with your belly or waist area. It seems more challenging with a bigger heavier bass. So sometimes angling the pin leftward is the only way to alleviate that spin feeling. In 90 per cent of cases I have encountered, it is more about stance and holding the bass than it is about the angles of the pin. Starting from exact center, then 44 to 45 degrees back so that the end of the pin contacts the floor at least in line with the back of the bass or two to four inches beyond the back, for most 3/4 size (standard "full size") basses, seems to work well for the balance of the instrument at the "proper" playing angles for the arms. If the player is short and the bass is big, or the player is quite tall and the overall angle toward the player isn't great enough, then one remedy to the spin problem is this angle off axis toward the G string. Remember there are always three angles to deal with, and they all have an effect on each other. Then, trying to force old techniques of stance and playing in general onto the new stance often causes one to search for feelings of familiarity. One must be open to the new technique and let it evolve into one's playing. It took me two full years to even get comfortable with the pin and another ten years to feel mastery. Life and virtuosity are about change!
Hope this helps a bit.
Patrick