Fingerboard, positions, notes ...

WarwickBass7 · #1 10-17-2007, 11:29 AM

Do you maybe know how can i get to know the fingerboard and the positions better. How can i think of the positions more clearly. I would like to make an image in my head of the fingerboard while playing, on which i could see all the notes as I was watching the neck of my bass guitar. On my bass guitar i dont have problems with positions and finding notes cause frets help me. But on the double bass I just cant imagine all the notes, positions ....
Any ideas? Praciticing tips? Methods?

Thank you...

PNeher · #2 10-17-2007, 02:14 PM

What you talk about here is called "mapping" or "physical mapping" where you have an image in your mind of locations on the board. I believe it IS necessary to have some sort of "visualization" of the board, regarding location of specific pitches. This visualization, tho', can be accomplished not only with sight (eyes) but with tactile sensation. A blind person does the same thing when walking into known areas, and with a baton or walking stick in unknown areas. You do NOT need to look at the frets or the fingerboard to get a visualized Map of the board. With that said, how one maps an area is personal. Many people do it from what they see AND feel, combined into a good picture for their thoughts as to where notes are. So, put your mind in both areas of input, but seperately for awhile, then combine them. In other words, LOOK at where your hand is, what is its FORM, what are the distances that it must move, etc. to BE IN TUNE. Then, close your eyes and repeat the FEELING of those LOOKS (try playing with your eyes closed or play in a blacked-out room). To play well in tune one must memorize the feeling of proper motion and form. PROPER is related to accurate pitch. If the pitch is continually inaccurate, one must be resolved to either re-asses form or motion or both. It becomes the PROPER form/motion if it is in tune and efficient. In general, I use my "forms-at-rest" attitude when trying to produce and reproduce the proper forms and motions. So, when your hands are at rest (relaxed) what form do they take? When you support that form, and utilize it in playing, that SHOULD be the most efficient. (More about this is pervious posts.) So, with proper form, motion, visualization (eyes, and feeling) one can map the fb efficiently and effectively. And you will play swiftly and in tune. AND you MUST PRACTICE, but know how to isolate motions that are ineffective, revise (using ears as feedback), redo in a different motion or shape, and test again (ears) whether it is working to your ideal. Whew! Good luck to you, always!
Patrick

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarwickBass7

Do you maybe know how can i get to know the fingerboard and the positions better. How can i think of the positions more clearly. I would like to make an image in my head of the fingerboard while playing, on which i could see all the notes as I was watching the neck of my bass guitar. On my bass guitar i dont have problems with positions and finding notes cause frets help me. But on the double bass I just cant imagine all the notes, positions ....
Any ideas? Praciticing tips? Methods?

Thank you...

DrayMiles · #3 10-17-2007, 03:45 PM

Get Simandl, Play through your scales in all 12 keys. IMO.. That's a good start.

WarwickBass7 · #4 10-19-2007, 02:26 AM

That seems interesting...
But my real question was not about tuning, but about memorizing the fingerboard and all the positions. Knowing where all the notes are... Somethimes while reading I get lost in positions. While playing I should see all the notes in my head of the fingerboard and positions? right?

Thanks Patrick and Dray

WarwickBass7 · #5 10-19-2007, 02:35 AM

Im a begginer. I ve "learned" the first twelve positions so far.
Well maybe not learned good enough.
I understand the first five positions. But as i go higher it gets a bit cloudy, I cant visualize all the notes in my head as I can in the first five positions. And when i get to X to XII position it becomes clearer again...

PNeher · #6 10-19-2007, 09:11 AM

Intonation and "finging the notes" are what I was talking about above. Not about "tuning" or how your bass is tuned (although to play in tune your bass, generally, should be in tune!) As you will read above, in order to PLAY THE NOTES, one must map the board, know where they are. It is about learning the MOTIONS and the FORMS. And the comment about getting a book and doing all the exercises is a good one, though simplistic. If you are THINKING about the process it takes to learn positions, it happens more repeatedly and accurately. Don't repeat in practice what you do not want to do. "seeing" all the notes in your head is only one, but a truly necessary aspect, of learning all the positions. By the way, Rabbath labels the board in six big areas, based on the harmonic series, while Simandl has over 12 positions based on placement of the thumb and half steps. Which do you think might be more easily mapped? Getting lost in position is a matter of concentration and confidence in knowing where you are. Practice! And be sure to have a private teacher who can gulde you through it all.
And finally, it is the SOUND that is most important. Focus on creating a great sound and you will also play better in tune.
Cheers!
PN

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarwickBass7

That seems interesting...
But my real question was not about tuning, but about memorizing the fingerboard and all the positions. Knowing where all the notes are... Somethimes while reading I get lost in positions. While playing I should see all the notes in my head of the fingerboard and positions? right?

Thanks Patrick and Dray

WarwickBass7 · #7 10-19-2007, 01:44 PM

Sry... bad choice of words, didn't mean the word tune...

But I get the point of what you're saying.
Thanks again, good answer...

And do you maybe know a good place for learning the double bass in the summer? I'm from Europe (Croatia)... Places in Europe or can be in the States. Something good and not TOO high. I looked at Berklee's programs but they are way too expensive...

Andrija

David Potts · #8 06-01-2008, 12:54 AM

Can I buy into this one?

There is a little book of studies by Jiri Pichlik, "Technical Studies for Double Bass" (Feja, Berlin) which writes out string crossing exercises longhand.

Picture playing the following notes across Half Position with the fingering 1 - 2 - 1 - 2,
F B E flat A then back, A Eflat B F. Move up a 1/2 tone and repeat, all the time reading the notes (even calling them out loud instead). Work your way up to Fifth position (the base of the neck) or start there and work down

Other patterns are 2121, 1414, 4141, 2424 and 4242 or combinations of the above.

Take care of your left wrist especially on the bottom string when the wrist pronates - these are heavy exercises. Don't hurt yourself!

I choose a pattern and do only some of it as part of a warm-up. There are many spin-offs. Tracking in straight lines, finger shapes, strengthening and endurance, intonation, practising half tone shifts AND constantly reading/calling notes out loud both across and up/down strings. You end up being more familiar and clear minded with the entire fingerboard.

Regards

DP