Guidelines for orchestral bowing

[Stan Haskins]

Patrick -

We're all having a great time reading your thoughtful responses here, thanks for taking the time!

My question is this: where does one go to find a systematic method for bowing orchestral pieces?

I know that there are always several ways to bow any passage, and as a German player (bow, not nationality) I've noticed my French section mates seem to prefer different bowings, and some players seem to prefer "splitting" long legato phrases into more bow changes. Often, I've found I'm chasing the bows of the player on the next stand (we don't share stands, luckily), and suspect that he's trying to do the same. Result: four bassists, four different bowings

I'm asking this question as someone who came to classical playing a little later in life - I've only been able to play with student and amateur sections thus far, so I've never had the experience of being able to play with a "unified" section that "breathes" together.

Basically, I'd like to find some guidelines or a system that can help me to practice bowings that make musical sense, and to have the flexibility to play with the more experienced or professional sections when the time arises.

Along the same lines, how do professional sections handle their bowings? Is the Principal expected to mark up everyone's part, is it done during sectionals, or is everyone expected to keep their eyes and ears open to follow the leader?

Thanks!

[PNeher]

Originally Posted by Stan Haskins

Patrick -

We're all having a great time reading your thoughtful responses here, thanks for taking the time!

My question is this: where does one go to find a systematic method for bowing orchestral pieces?

I know that there are always several ways to bow any passage, and as a German player (bow, not nationality) I've noticed my French section mates seem to prefer different bowings, and some players seem to prefer "splitting" long legato phrases into more bow changes. Often, I've found I'm chasing the bows of the player on the next stand (we don't share stands, luckily), and suspect that he's trying to do the same. Result: four bassists, four different bowings

I'm asking this question as someone who came to classical playing a little later in life - I've only been able to play with student and amateur sections thus far, so I've never had the experience of being able to play with a "unified" section that "breathes" together.

Basically, I'd like to find some guidelines or a system that can help me to practice bowings that make musical sense, and to have the flexibility to play with the more experienced or professional sections when the time arises.

Along the same lines, how do professional sections handle their bowings? Is the Principal expected to mark up everyone's part, is it done during sectionals, or is everyone expected to keep their eyes and ears open to follow the leader?

Thanks!

Hi Stan,
Thanks for the involved questions: my response of course only being one moderate leve opinion.

I really focus on what I believe is the phrasing of the music, in connection with the rest of the orchestra to bow a passage. What the cellists and violinists do has som influence, but generally I try to wait until we have had a first rehearsal, to get an idea of the conductor's sense of phrasing or if not conducted, what the ensemble feels the phrasing to be. Then I try to bow accordingly with much credit given to the composer's indications. Now, a lot of published music has been edited by non-bassists and by bassists that must of had little bow technique. Today there are such excellent players, with abilities that perhaps were not considered when a lot of "war-horses" were printed and played by major symphonies in the past. So certain bowings have became "traditional" and as one who believes (as Mahler did) that following tradition is often a laziness, I tend to do my best to push the issue of "composers' wants" which, of course, is only an opinion. As Principal you are expected to voice your expertise and if you have good reason for bowing a certain way, great! In most orchestras bowings are done by a committee of principals, mainly dictated by the concertmaster. But I have had trouble with that in the past, so often would defer to the conductor if I could. Most orchestras have the parts bowed by the librarian before the first rehearsal. Your orchestra may require that each player mark the part, following your guide.
So, bowings are a political issue as well as musical and technical. You may find some do not have the skill to do your bowings. Make accomodations but always be true to your interpretation of the music.
German and French holds and bows differ, but a section should be untied in directions. The ensemble acts like one instrument, so uniformity in direction and even in placement is desired. Check out the Dresden Phil. bass section some time... wWWWOOW! Talk about together! And the orchestra truly listens to the bass section, making for a "tight" orchestra.
Good luck, on a rather touchy subject.
PN