Handel's Messiah. Continuo vs Ripieno

bassmart08 · #1 11-23-2011, 08:22 PM

Hello Patrick,

With Messiah, no two performances are alike. Sometimes you're by yourself and sometimes there are two basses, sometimes they double-dot, sometimes not,...bowings, etc. etc. etc.

Is there a rule of thumb regarding when the principal bass should participate with the continuo (harpsichord and cello) even when it indicates "seza" or "ripieni tacent"? like nos. 10 and 11, Behold Darkness-The People That Walked in Darkness for instance.

Generally, I play everything unless I'm directed otherwise or it seems to overpower the soloist. BUT i have kindof a high profile performance coming up which could lead to a lot of work for me and I want to look like I know what I'm doing.

Thanks!
Martin

neilG · #2 11-23-2011, 10:32 PM

That "ripieno" thing is not according to the original. What you have there is an arrangement. There's no rule of thumb except that standard practice has only a single cello playing during the recitatives. There are also a very few place where Handel specifies cello only in the autograph. This he does by writing "violincello" or using tenor clef. Or, you can just play the arrangement, but I think it sounds contrived.

Refer here for autographs and urtexts.
Messiah, HWV 56 (Handel, George Frideric) - IMSLP/Petrucci Music Library: Free Public Domain Sheet Music

I play everything except the recits until told otherwise. I wouldn't presume to know if I'm overpowering the soloist, that's the conductor's job, and unless you have really weak singers, highly unlikely.
Have fun!

neilG · #3 11-23-2011, 10:35 PM

Hey, I just realized my reply is in Patrick Neher's space. Sorry to intrude! I think my info is valid but delete it if you want.
Neil

LouisF · #4 12-01-2011, 12:57 PM

An anecdote on a totally different level:

There is a community opera group in LA that I've played in the pit for over the last few years. There are generally 3 basses and the other 2 guys are really good, working musicians, and I'm the amateur geezer in the bunch.

So they called and said they needed a bass for the Messiah. I assumed they needed ANOTHER bass for the Messiah. When I got to rehearsal last night I realized I was the ONLY bass for the Messiah.

Moral of the story: Practice ALL the notes, which is what I am going to go and do now!! It was fun, yes, but totally terrifying!

Louis