The slap is louder than the note

theshadow2001 · #1 04-02-2007, 09:07 PM

I'm not familiar with the slap technique, I'm not even a double bassist just yet. But from what I've seen of the slap technique on youtube and other places. It nearly always seems when the player slaps, the notes of the bass line seem to fall behind in the mix with the sharper slaps coming more into the forefront than the notes being played. Its almost as if the notes become secondry to the rythmic slaps. Sometimes this is more noticeable than other times.

I don't know if this due to bad recordings poor technique the basses and quipment used or if thats just the way slap on the upright sounds.

If it is just the sound i think its a shame that the bass line gets lost behind the technique. What are your guys thoughts?

ZombieGhosTrain · #2 04-02-2007, 11:34 PM

It depends on the strings used, and the person's aggressiveness. Low tension gut or nylon strings will produce a duller note that won't be as audible, and the slap will take over. For some bands, the slap rhythms are of primary importance, and for other's it is the notes themselves. This varies from band to band and genre to genre. However, I think that part of the reason slapping is used (was used?) was so the bassist could be heard in an outdoor situation with many other instruments, as well as to provide percussion.

Nowadays, playing in clubs or recording, you can use pickup systems that will have two piezo transducers, one on the fingerboard and one on the bridge. You can then adjust the volumes of each individually, and have them as two separate tracks. As far as youtube home videos...slaps are going to come through alot easier and have a much more prominent place.

Plus, many use it to hide a lack of bass technique.

Bass · #3 04-03-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

...If it is just the sound i think its a shame that the bass line gets lost behind the technique. What are your guys thoughts?

I think both the bass and the slap should be audible. It's odd that there is too much slap sound for your liking, in the recordings you've heard. I hear more often than not that the slap is not loud enough.

I've been jamming with two guitar players (no drummer) for the last 4 months. In this case, the slap is essential: I am the bass and the drums.

theshadow2001 · #4 04-03-2007, 03:01 PM

Well let me give you some examples

This one I think the bass line is just way too far behind the slap. Granted I see in the comments ot was a $650 bass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1yz...elated&search=

This one I find more acceptable the bass line isn't as drowned out by the slap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54bz5...elated&search=

Jason Sypher · #5 04-03-2007, 03:11 PM

a player should be able to completely control both sounds and every minute gradation of either in the mix. Typically condensor mics and cheap recordings often enhance the click when in real life it is mixing well. It's something to be acutely aware of as a player.

ZuluFunk · #6 04-03-2007, 09:13 PM

bass always gets dumped in those videos.

ZombieGhosTrain · #7 04-04-2007, 12:12 AM

The bass in the second video is of considerable higher quality as well, and probably projects much better.

bass4daddy · #8 04-04-2007, 11:26 AM

I think the hands had alot to do with it.

Seventhirteen · #9 04-07-2007, 11:05 AM

comparing oranges to apples in those 2 videos, the style in video 2 is going to have a better sound (notewise), you won't see folks playing live with the style of video 1 unamplified.

course video 2 is a much much much better bass

superman · #10 04-07-2007, 10:07 PM

The type wood of the finger board also has some bearing on the type of click you get, ebony will produce a louder slap where as rosewood will be a bit duller,,brazillian rose wood to me is the best board to use for slaping,,too bad you can'nt get it anymore,,

theshadow2001 · #11 04-08-2007, 04:02 PM

Whats everyones opinion on the ratio of the volume slap to the actual note. What do you think it should be? Should one have a definite prominence over the other shoul it be 50/50, what do think?

ZuluFunk · #12 04-08-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

Whats everyones opinion on the ratio of the volume slap to the actual note. What do you think it should be? Should one have a definite prominence over the other shoul it be 50/50, what do think?

I don't keep it consistent between songs...or even in some songs. I use a K&K RaB so I can dial in the level I want. I also adjust the tweeter on my cab and eq when I want it to sizzle.

I don't think you can put it in terms of ratio, because we're talking totally different wavelenghts.

Too much is not a good thing, though.

Jason Sypher · #13 04-09-2007, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

Whats everyones opinion on the ratio of the volume slap to the actual note. What do you think it should be? Should one have a definite prominence over the other shoul it be 50/50, what do think?

It should be constantly tailored to be the most musical sound, never a static thing.

blown240 · #14 05-18-2007, 10:14 AM

I have my bass going thru a pedal that I built that allows me to turn off the slap pickup when I want. Some of the songs we play need to have the slap upfront to help carry the beat. Other songs the slap sound out of place.

JJBluegrasser · #15 05-18-2007, 10:55 AM

I play on Thomastic Spirocore Mediums, and when I slap, it's mostly note with a little but of slap. I have fun every once in a while playing on someone else's bass strung with guts, so I can get that thick slap heavy, no note to be found thump.

Oh, and if you set your action up really high to get your whole finger under the string, then the slap will dominate. That setup requires so much velocity on the string when you pull it, that you can't avoid it.

I think steel strings are the deal. I don't do the rockabilly thing though. If you want to slap the whole song, you'll need to swap out your fingers when you change strings...if you're using Spiro Mediums.

Schrale_Anus · #16 10-11-2007, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

I don't know if this due to bad recordings poor technique the basses and quipment used or if thats just the way slap on the upright sounds.

If it is just the sound i think its a shame that the bass line gets lost behind the technique. What are your guys thoughts?

If a player is amped he has control over two volumes: The volume of the slap and the volume of belly. These two volumes are changed even during gigs, cause every song might need another slap/tone ratio.

I wouldn't know if your tone gets lost a lot at the cost of your slap, but I do know that some bands have an afwful loud slap over tone ratio!

JimmyM · #17 10-13-2007, 08:28 PM

It could also be that you're just not hearing the frequencies of the note. Slap exists in a much higher frequency than low bass notes, so they're usually easier to hear.

kurt · #18 11-19-2007, 02:55 AM

Has anyone else ever tried a Schertler stat-b pickup for slapping? I used an underwood for 10 years and a realist a few times. With the piezo pickups it always seems like when you go from regular pizzicato to slapping the bottom end drops out and the click takes over. About a year ago I got the Schertler which is an electrostatic mic in a piece of cork that fits into the bridge wing. when I slap with it the bottom doesn't drop out at all but there's still lots high end definition. you have to make sure it's not too tight or it will sound thin. I'm not sure why more slappers aren't using them, I think it sounds great for slapping. I also think the amount of click depends on your attack. Sometimes I pull the string very lightly to produce almost no click at all and other times much harder. It all depends on what the song calls for.