1950's and 60's Jazz Strings

richard hassan · #1 12-08-2007, 08:38 AM

I have been recently listening to alot of jazz lp's from the 1950's and 60's and was wondering what types and brands of strings were available to jazz bassists of that era? Also, when did Spirocores become a favorite of jazz bassists?

Phil Rowan · #2 12-08-2007, 09:35 AM

Gut strings. You may not be able to get the same exact brand they had, but the sound will come pretty close from what you can buy now.

**Jeremy Allen** · #3 12-08-2007, 10:25 AM

Check this out, especially the inset at the bottom labelled "Paul Warburton Remembers." (Paul is here on the board, and he can tell you exactly what you want to know.)

Sounds like guts (Red-O-Rays, Artones, and everything else), then Lycons, then Spiros sometime in the mid-1960s on. Man would I love to get hold of Artone D and G; this is what Scott LaFaro played on, supposedly.

richard hassan · #4 12-08-2007, 11:21 AM

Thanks, Jeremy, the link has some good info.

Uncletoad · #5 12-08-2007, 12:21 PM

There is quite a bit of conversation about this woven in and out of different threads here. Hard to search and dig out but the gist of it is in Paul's paragraph in the link Jeremy provided.

As far as getting that sound yourself I'd suggest saving some money and energy by ignoring full gut sets and lots of trial and error with different steels and different guts. I've been there and done that.

I suggest using well broken in Spirocores on the E and A and Gamut gut plain strings in Med, Med+ or Heavy Gage for the D and G.

Depending on the tensions you prefer the Spiro Mittels and Medium+ Guts are nice middle of the road combination. Weich spiros with Medium Guts for the low tension approach or Stark spiros with Heavy or Heavy+ Guts for the heavy hitter.

The medium gage guts with a Spiro Mittel E and weich A is a nice combo as is the Stark E, mittel A and Medium+ or Heavy gage guts on top.

Once they are broken in you'll have that old school sound love it or hate it.

Be prepared for some serious adjustments. The Guts are expensive and don't last very long compared to the cheaper and more durable steels.

Read the Gamut Gut thread for the stories.

Prepare to enter Hell.

richard hassan · #6 12-08-2007, 12:45 PM

Thanks Phil. I am actually quite happy with spiros, but I was curious what those guys were using and the options available to them.

Uncletoad · #7 12-08-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard hassan

Thanks Phil. I am actually quite happy with spiros, but I was curious what those guys were using and the options available to them.

Dig that.

Drawered the Guts myself lately for Spiros.

Needed a break. Maybe learned what I need to as well I dunno.

TroyK · #8 12-08-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Drawered the Guts myself lately for Spiros.

:-)

Jason Sypher · #9 12-08-2007, 04:43 PM

"Drawered the Guts myself lately for Spiros."

Oh, you'll be back, you'll be back....

drurb · #10 12-08-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard hassan

I have been recently listening to alot of jazz lp's from the 1950's and 60's and was wondering what types and brands of strings were available to jazz bassists of that era? Also, when did Spirocores become a favorite of jazz bassists?

See my avatar... that's all I have to say.

Don Higdon · #11 12-08-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard hassan

I have been recently listening to alot of jazz lp's from the 1950's and 60's and was wondering what types and brands of strings were available to jazz bassists of that era?

A popular combination was Golden Spiral G and D, with wire-wound gut A and E. I know Ron Carter was using that setup.

Mark Carlsen · #12 12-08-2007, 10:35 PM

Tell us more Don... Didn't alot of Jazzers use Red O Rays or Golden Spirals on top and Lycons on the bottom ?

Uncletoad · #13 12-09-2007, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

"Drawered the Guts myself lately for Spiros."

Oh, you'll be back, you'll be back....

Prolly.

Don Higdon · #14 12-09-2007, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Carlsen

Tell us more Don... Didn't alot of Jazzers use Red O Rays or Golden Spirals on top and Lycons on the bottom ?

I would if I could. Memory fades. "Artone" rings a bell. I just went with what my luthier (Julius Callman; Ken Smith may remember him)recommended.

KSB - Ken Smith · #15 12-09-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

I would if I could. Memory fades. "Artone" rings a bell. I just went with what my luthier (Julius Callman; Ken Smith may remember him)recommended.

I remember Callman. I was in his shop once (1969-1970?) and he had an Italian Bass for sale there. It was identical if not the same Bass as in the Elgar book. It was the Gennaro Gagliano with the open back pegbox. A round back with upper angle break and a light golden brown varnish. It was $2500! It seemed a bit expensive then being that an old German Bass on the street would run about $200 on average.

A few years latter bassist Irv Manning (Don Higdon may remember him. He till around?) brought this beautiful newly restored Bass over to me. Callman spent about 2 years on it. Irv was told it was a Guadagnini. He asked if I would re-cut the top of the Bridge for him the way I do my own Basses. So, I grabbed a few tools and did it on the Bass as he held it, one string slot at a time. A few years later I asked Biase if he knew that Bass and was told it was an English Bass and not a Guad. or even Italian for that matter.

That's about all I remember with Callman but with what I do recall seems like it was yesterday.

Strings? In 1966 when I got my first Bass from Juzek I think it had either Spiros or Ropecores. All the Basses in School (mostly carved Juzeks and maybe one American Standard) had Guts on them. We never even thought about the strings back then. I had even seen Presto plastic wrapped strings as well. The Ampeg Babybass came with Guts on it as well. Some players got fancy and put Golden Spiral/Gut wound or GlSp/Spiros on the Babybasses.

I remember that Guts, Spiros, Ropecores, Flexocors and Eudoxas were the main strings used then. I had seen the ads for Lycons but never actually saw anyone using them in NY. Flex and Eudoxa (steel or steel/gut) were the main orchestra strings. Spiros and Ropecores ($4. cheaper) were the main for Jazz. In the mid-late 60s and on, almost all the jazz players I had met had steel.

I guess that Gut was already dying out by the time I started playing. In 1964 I was in 7th grade in Florida and the Basses there (German Plywood) were all strung with steel already. I think the Steel took over quickly like an ice age storm, overnight maybe..

Arnold told me a story about a NY Classical player that came into his shop recently and picked up a Bass to try that had Gut strings on it and commented "now I remember why we got rid of these wretched strings and switched to steel".

boombloom · #16 12-09-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Carlsen

Tell us more Don... Didn't alot of Jazzers use Red O Rays or Golden Spirals on top and Lycons on the bottom ?

I started using Golden Spiral G and D and Spirocore E and A about 10 years ago at the recommendation of bluegrass legend Tom Grey. I wanted to find a combination that I could play all night long without injury. Festival jams start when the stage shuts down for the night and end at sunrise. They can include any number of guitars, fiddles, dobros, mandos and b@njos. Only one bass is allowed at any time though. 4 Spiros would rip up my hands after a while, especially after I started slapping. I ran into my bass hero Mr. Grey on line and he recommended this combination. Then one summer I heard that my beloved Spirals were no longer available due to mad cow disease. I bought up a bunch of new-old stock and I'm now on my last pair. I'm reading this thread with interest because I know that I'll be looking for an alternative soon.

By the way--I'm not a jazz player, but I'd like to be.

**Jeremy Allen** · #17 12-09-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

We never even thought about the strings back then.

Sounds like a state we should aspire to...

Don Higdon · #18 12-09-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

We never even thought about the strings back then.

Precisely. We didn't have the range of choice that exists today. Technology has brought us a long way.

rftbass · #19 12-09-2007, 02:44 PM

There was a Kay on e-bay and there was shoot of some string packages - Nuton and Sweetone

drurb · #20 12-10-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

I had seen the ads for Lycons but never actually saw anyone using them in NY. ...In 1964 I was in 7th grade in Florida and the Basses there (German Plywood) were all strung with steel already.

It was somewhere in the early 70's (also in Florida) that I "discovered" the Lycons. Just curious-- did you ever play a set, Ken?