5ths Tuning Strings

[Johnny L]

Right now, I'm using D'Addarios - solo A, orchestra D, solo F#, and hybrid B...more or less what Quarrington recommends on his website but a different brand sting.

I like this combination except for the A string. It sounds fine pizz and with the bow, but it's a little thin and lower tension than I'm used to. I don't have any experience with solo tuning strings except for the above though, so I don't know if this is normal for solo A strings. Of course though, with 5ths tuning there is a wider range of pitch to cover and so I expected that the strings would feel different than EADG strings...especially for B/C strings.

Anyway, what are you using for 5ths tuning right now? Are you using the dominant brand or the Red Mitchell set or what?

[kontrabass]

I'm actually using the exact same set for you. I wasn't expecting much, as I got them used and have never been a fan of Helicores.

Since I am getting a new bass in the next few weeks, I am looking for a new set, particularly because the new bass (a Wan-Bernadel) is fairly bright. From what I have heard, The Spirocore C and/or G wouldn't go well, as they are best for darker instruments. I've heard conflicting reports about Dominants and brighter basses, so I am unsure whether they will work.

For now, my only hope is the new set of Obligatos, which are specifically designed for fifths. The C and G are supposed to 1) "lack cajones," and 2) have a steel core "C" string, or something of the sort...but the set is a start.

This is all, of course, for orchestral playing.

Does anyone else have suggestions or ideas?

PS-I just remembered reading in the "Bel Canto thread" that Joel Q. was playing with the set in fifths. Would it be reasonable to custom order a 5ths gauge set? I seem to recall a 12 set minimum, which would not only be expensive but would last me a rather long time, not to mention if I didn't like the string...

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by kontrabass

Bel Canto

Yeah I'd probably give them a try if they came as a 5ths tuning set also...at least the A string.

As best I can tell, I've heard only one player using Obligatos. He sounded great and is a great player. But I'm still too shy to use strings with cores that suffer when getting changed and have a much better chance in general of breaking.

Maybe I'll just snag a handful of solo A strings and settle with one of them, since I'm overall very happy with the bowed sound and pizz sustain of the lower strings and don't mind keeping the rest as-is on my bass.

For a little while I put a G string back on mostly to get back the harmonics, but the A string just makes fingering stuff more intuitive with the rest of the strings being in 5ths.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by Johnny L

Maybe I'll just snag a handful of solo A strings and settle with one of them, since I'm overall very happy with the bowed sound and pizz sustain of the lower strings and don't mind keeping the rest as-is on my bass.

An alternative is to use a Pirastro rubber tone filter with the solo A.
It dampens that string to a very nice level, with bright G strings, so it should work even better with a solo A.

[paulunger]

Might I recommend trying a regular 'G ' string tuned up to an 'A'. This is what I have been doing when I tune in fifths. I find the solo 'A' string a little thin for orchestral use. I am a flexor fan and the lower tension of the medium gauge strings seems to work fine when tuned up.
I would be happy to hear from you and everyone else out there your experiences with different strings tuned in fifths. My biggest problem has been finding a suitable low 'G' string. The Obligato fifth tuning set was a major disappointment and the Red Mitchell Spirocore is not responsive enough with the bow. I have tried a few solo F# strings but the thickness of the gauge of the string was very uncomfortable for me.
I would love to petition Pirastro to make a fifths tuning set of Flexocor strings. Maybe if there are enough of us out there, they will do it. Let me know that have helped me in the past.

Thanks.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by paulunger

My biggest problem has been finding a suitable low 'G' string. The Obligato fifth tuning set was a major disappointment and the Red Mitchell Spirocore is not responsive enough with the bow. I have tried a few solo F# strings but the thickness of the gauge of the string was very uncomfortable for me.

Did you try the stark Flexocor A?
Forte Jargar A?

[Johnny L]

Greetings Paul and thanks for very much for the suggestion. I've got a few G strings laying around (one of them a flexocore string too) and will try it.

[paulunger]

originally posted by francois:
Did you try the stark Flexocor A?
Forte Jargar A?
__________________

Yes. In fact a stark flexocor A tuned down to a 'G' is what I am using now, but it is still too flabby and not as responsive in the bow.
I've never been a fan of Jargar strings, but am willing to give it a try. Do you know what the tension of their A strings are, and how does it compare to a flexocor 'A'?

[Francois Blais]

Well, the Jargar A is more thumpy in my experience, and somewhat stiffer. (but not necessarily higher tension)
The Flexocor A has a nice pizz tone IMO, while the Jargar is definitely more arco oriented.

[Jake]

I agree that the Helicore Solo A is thin sounding. Have any of you guys tried the Pirastro Original Flatchrome Solo A? I had a set of those solo strings and loved them. I got the idea to buy them from my bass teacher, Jeff Bradetich, who sounds awesome with them.

[Johnny L]

O.K. an update for any interested people out there...as far as 5ths/4ths tuning versatility goes, I've been using this string combo:

1st Corelli 370M G (tuned to A)
2nd Corelli 370TX D
3rd Corelli 360M F# (tuned to G)
4th Corelli 370F B (tuned to C)

I still dig the Helicore Hybrid B most for a low string, but the Corelli is easier to bow and it's not so thick.

With this combo, I can tune back to ADG whenever I want without worrying so much about string tension. Tuning the solo F# up to A works fine for me...not too stiff for my taste...and I don't have a floppy low G when I want to go back to 5ths.

I haven't even come close to exploring a low C that I can tune up to E (or vice versa) and probably won't...those particular strings are just too expensive for me. I still haven't tried the Quarrington dominants suggestion either (entirely because I don't want to deal with broken strings), but he sure sounds good on his Bottesini recordings!

The only Spirocore I've tried for this is their low C and I didn't like it at all for either pizz or bow. I just couldn't ever hear enough fundamental with it...maybe I was just not patient enough to let the brightness calm down or something.

edit: oh yeah the G string thing was inspired by Paul Unger's suggestion on using a Flexocore G tuned up to A. The flexocore was too stiff for my taste but the lighter Corelli G did the trick for me. I was using an Original Flatchrome A that I tuned to G occasionally...it was a good compromise for me before the Corelli G...but I like going the other direction best for more G-tuned-stiffness

[Johnny L]

O.K. a couple of months ago I threw down for a Red Mitchell spirocore set to find out what a 5ths tuning string set felt like. I got the Weich set.

I like it quite a bit I think it does feel better. I can't tell much with the A, D and C strings, but the Red Mitchell G string feels great...not so high tension as a solo F# tuned to G. They bow pretty darn well too!

Anyway just passing this on. I haven't tried the Velvet 5ths tuning strings and probably won't...and if I ever want to go back to 4ths tuning I'll just put 4ths tuning strings on again and just settle. It's too confusing for me going back and forth.

[Jeff Moote]

Originally Posted by Johnny L

O.K. a couple of months ago I threw down for a Red Mitchell spirocore set to find out what a 5ths tuning string set felt like. I got the Weich set.

...

They bow pretty darn well too!

That's interesting! Joel does not think they bow well (or at least not as well as his Dominant A D G(F#), Spiro low C set).

I've just picked up that combination, but they're not on the bass yet. When they are I'll report how that is going.

[Johnny L]

Yeah spiros are funny strings. When I had my Strunal, spiros didn't work for bowing at all...but on my budget Romanian bass, they meet my minimum expectations.

But I'm not at all in a position to say anyone should dismiss the observations of Joel Quarrington. If he finds Dominants superior for bowing then likely they are superior.

Plus, the low C is still a challenge for me to start quickly. The one I like best, overall, is the Helicore Hybrid B tuned to C...might put that back on. But I still like the Red Mitchell C quite a bit.

[Dave Whitla]

Although I'm not a fifths tuner myself, I just noticed that Velvet seem to be making a fifths tuning set of their Compas 180 strings. The fourths tuned strings sound pretty decent...

http://www.velvetstrings.com/eng/compas180.htm

[Verth]

I've been using :

a- solo flexocor(Pirastro)
d- orchestra(Pirastro)
G- Spirocore mittel(Thomastik)
C- Spirocore mittel(Thomastik)

I play mostly classical music but this set up permits me to get better sustain in the low register when playing pizzicato. It also works well on my bass for arco.

I certainly hope to be trying out some Obligatos or Velvets soon

By the way Dave, why don't you switch-it's o sooo much fun!

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by Verth

I've been using :

a- solo flexocor(Pirastro)
d- orchestra(Pirastro)
G- Spirocore mittel(Thomastik)
C- Spirocore mittel(Thomastik)

A spiro low C was the first C string I tried when I first got into the 5ths tuning thing. It was stiff and thick and I couldn't seem to hear the pitch very well...but I did like the Red Mitchell C quite a bit. Is your G and C from one of the Mitchell set too?

Maybe they're pretty much the same string and it's just been my getting used to hearing the low C better. I don't really know.

Anyway, yeah Verth your choice seems a good one too. I always have great luck with flexocores as a quality bowing string also.

Do you see very many players tune EGDA? I read somewhere here there was a symphony written where some of the bass section was asked to tune 5ths but leave the low E as is. Was that because gut was the string in those days?

[Johnny L]

Well I tried the E string at the bottom thing...sorta fun I guess, but it does feel like a less than most useful addition to GDA

I want to say it makes the bass sound a little brighter too, overall. I tuned the E down to C for a little while, but upped it back to E and will keep it that way for at least a couple of days.

[Johnny L]

O.K. I went back to the low C and it makes a huge difference (at least for my ears behind the bass) as far as resonance goes. It's a much bigger, richer sound.

[Jeff Moote]

I just put on my first set in fifths: Dominant A, D, G and Spiro low C

Everything is good, but all very bright at least for now. I played my section mate's bass with older Doms and it was darker, so I imagine like all other strings they'll calm down.