About to take the Pistoy plunge. Varnish or not?

Dilbertisme · #1 10-15-2010, 10:14 AM

I've read all the Mega-threads and done a search, but haven't found a specific answer, so here goes . . .

Those of you who have experience with Gamut Pistoys, should I order them varnished or not? In particular, does the varnish make the string "sticky"? My hands get pretty sweaty and I hate that sticky feeling.

Some background for those who care:
I've been playing on La Bella plain gut G/D for about a year, and loving the sound and feel. (No stickiness here!) Have them paired with Garbos on the A/E, and it's been a happy combo. But in the last few weeks, my bass developed a wicked buzz on the open G and especially when fingering an A on that string. Buzz seemed to be coming from either the nut or the fingerboard near the nut. Right next to my left ear, in other words. Grrr! I tried all the usual buzz-abatement tricks, to no avail.

Made a pilgrimage to luthier Lisa Gass yesterday. She planed and polished the fingerboard and filled the nut slot with ebony dust and superglue to raise the string. Still buzzing. To make a long story short, it turned out that the year-old La Bella gut G was badly worn and beginning to fray where I finger A. This makes sense, considering I play old-time stringband music, which means I-V in A (and D) for hours at a stretch. Just to verify, we replaced it with a spare Obligato I keep in the bag as a backup. No more buzz.

The good news is that I now have an excuse to buy Gamuts.

Have decided on a Pistoy med G and light D, based on what I've read here on TB. I figure if I hate 'em, I can always sell them in the classifieds. The bad news is I have to play on Obligatos again until they arrive. Hope Dan ships fast!

drew_bassmore · #2 10-15-2010, 11:37 AM

I played a Lyon G and Pistoy D for about six months recently. They were both plain gut, and felt fine.

I figured I didn't need varnished in the very temperate climate of (No.) California.

On humid days my hands could feel a little sticky, but otherwise the strings would glide like butter for the most part.

FWIW.

Mark Perna · #3 10-15-2010, 12:28 PM

I've ONLY used varnished. No stickiness ever. The varnish seals the string so you really don't need to oil it to keep it from drying out and it significantly reduces the "hair" problem. I can report that I've never oiled my strings and I RARELY get any stray hairs that need clipping (or burning).

Some people report that the intonation of the string is less "true" with varnish but I've never noticed that to be the case.

mark

oldfretless · #4 10-15-2010, 03:30 PM

Pistoy G is a gem. Jury's still out on the D, although it seems to be sounding better. I felt it was a bit dead sounding. I think it's a bit of a difficult transition, and I would advise some break in before any gigging. Get varnished, and have the knots tied, unless you've done that before.

Mark Perna · #5 10-15-2010, 09:13 PM

The D takes some time to open up. It'll get more defined and focused the longer it is on the bass. We're talking over weeks. And +1 on the varnish and knots.

mark

Dilbertisme · #6 10-15-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calivox

The D takes some time to open up. It'll get more defined and focused the longer it is on the bass. We're talking over weeks. And +1 on the varnish and knots.

mark

After talking to Dan Larson this afternoon, seems there no reason not to have them varnished, and several reasons why it's a good idea. Having him tie the knots is also a no-brainer.

Mark, I think you've used both Lyon and Pistoy Gs. (And maybe Ds, for that matter?) For a guy like me, 100% pizz, simple I-V stuff, which one would you go with?

Mark Perna · #7 10-15-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilbertisme

After talking to Dan Larson this afternoon, seems there no reason not to have them varnished, and several reasons why it's a good idea. Having him tie the knots is also a no-brainer.

Mark, I think you've used both Lyon and Pistoy Gs. (And maybe Ds, for that matter?) For a guy like me, 100% pizz, simple I-V stuff, which one would you go with?

I loved the sound of the Lyon G but I went with the Pistoy G because I can play faster on it for soloing purposes. It responds and recovers faster than the Lyon. If not for that, I'd probably be playing on a Lyon. D is more problematic. The Lyon D was nice but a little chunky for my tastes. The Pistoy D sounds a lot like a deeper version of the Lyon G. If it were me in your situation, I'd go with a medium Lyon G and a light Pistoy D.

mark

Dilbertisme · #8 10-16-2010, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calivox

If it were me in your situation, I'd go with a medium Lyon G and a light Pistoy D.

mark

Thanks Mark! That's what I ordered. Total came to $261.81, including shipping. For two strings. My wife is going to be sooo pleased.

Fortunately for me, she's an oboist, so she's well acquainted with musical instrument obsession. When I spoke to Dan, he told me he has lengths of both Lyon and Pistoy material ready to go, so I should have the strings next week.

Practiced for a while on the Obligatos last night. I like the way they sound and intonate, actually, but feel? Let's just say I can't wait to have those nice soft sausages under my fingertips again.

MT Spaces · #9 10-16-2010, 10:33 PM

I have owned (and still own) 5 different Pistoys (2-G/2-D/1-Plain A) ... All varnished ... I can't think of any good reason to own un-varnished but I have been wrong many times before

. I don't bow ... Maybe that is a consideration .... Or maybe not. I can only imagine that un-varnished guts would be more sticky. I have re-varned mine a couple of times after sanding loose hairs off. They keep on ticking.

glink · #10 10-16-2010, 11:15 PM

Just finished my first week with my new Gamuts (copper E and A and pistoy D and G). First saw them on TB and decided to drink the gut Kool-Aid and they have totally exceeded my expectations in every way.

The sound and feel can't even begin to compare to the steel strings I've used- Spiro Mitt and Weich and Evah Weich. They require a lot of re-tuning for now but I just keep my clip on tuner on my bridge and recheck between tunes. They are definitely settling down nicely. If and when they really stabilize, I'm in string heaven and my search for tone and feel is (thank goodness) done.

I can't imagine why you would want unvarnished when these feel so darn good. I think there is going to be a bit of a learning curve to bring my arco up to speed, but fortunately I play mostly pizz and I just feel like my left hand is so much quicker and expressive now with less fatigue that I can't ever see going back.

It was a big buck investment but my initial impression is that it is going to be well worth it. My thanks to TB for helping me make some good choices for my rig and finally getting to a place where I can stop searching for gear and just concentrate on making music!

**Jeremy Allen** · #11 10-23-2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glink

I can't imagine why you would want unvarnished when these feel so darn good.

Well, there is kind of a difference in feel and response between varnished and unvarnished, particularly with the bow. In my experience, I would probably leave the string unvarnished if I were going to bow a lot; and when I had varnished Gamuts, there were plenty of "hairs" anyway (although it was nice not to worry about oiling them much).

Dilbertisme · #12 10-24-2010, 01:01 AM

Received my package from Gamut day before yesterday. Sadly, they accidentally sent me a light G Lyon instead of the medium I ordered. Looks exactly like an extra long piece of spaghetti! A quick email to Dan and a Lyon medium G is enroute, with a self-addressed stamped envelope to return the light G. Great customer service, but wah! I want my guts! I must say both strings are little works of art, and I'm sorely tempted to put the beautiful light Pistoy D on right now, but I think I'd better wait for the new G to arrive and do them both at once.

Patience, Grasshopper . . .

superman · #13 10-24-2010, 09:33 PM

If you are useto Labella guts you might want to think about Gamuts heavy strings,,they are much closer to what Labellas are I really like labellas gage,,but not their current type of gut,,but the gage they use is the same used for 50+ years,,I have quite a collection of vintage strings and none of them are nearly as light as what Gamut likes too sell,,when I ordered a G&D from him some years back I had to make it very clear to him what gage I want,,Mr Larson thought it too be much too heavy,,but thats what most of my old strings measure, and it can make a BIG difference on some basses when useing too small of a string,,Kent

Troy Robey · #14 10-25-2010, 04:04 AM

Jeremy, would you mind elaborating on your experiences with bowing the unvarnished strings in regards to response and tone? Is the tone any darker than varnished? Does the bow hair grab the unvarnished string better?

Incidentally, I've been using a varnished Lyon G for some time and have dealt with a lot of hairs sprouting as well.

**Jeremy Allen** · #15 10-25-2010, 08:36 AM

My memory is not as good as would be a side-by-side comparison (it was about our years ago when I had the varnished Gamuts), but my impression was that the plain gut is easier to start under the bow than the varnished gut. The tone of the two types of strings doesn't seem to be all that different, though, once things get going. But the start of the note...that can be tricky with guts! And I need all of the help I can get.

Dilbertisme · #16 11-06-2010, 03:33 PM

Just to close this thread out, I finally received the correct (med) Lyon G. It's now on the bass, along with the light Pistoy D. Still chipping them up to pitch and haven't played much on them yet, but first impression is the gauges are perfect and I'm going to love the sound. You guys are all correct about the quality; the Pistoy in particular is a little work of art. I was surprised to see a few hairs sticking off the Lyon right out of the package. I trimmed them off with a nail clipper, but I hope I didn't make a mistake getting a Lyon instead of another Pistoy. Have a jam tomorrow, so we'll see how they feel after three hours or so.