Bowing Spirocores

[MrSidecar]

Originally Posted by Thumpie

http://www.contrabass.co.uk says:

Using the bow produces loud, hard-scratchy sounds which don't sound good at all to UK musicians. On the other hand some Continental orchestral players and soloists just love the clarity and projection that these strings can make. At a distance the hardness is not perceived or heard by the listener.

And, again in all modesty and tongue-in-cheek, it's great that contrabass.co.uk knows all them UK players... :-)

[MrSidecar]

I know I shouldn't be doing this, but something got me started. So please excuse me.

And I know this ain't Koussevitzky. But give it a listen and tell me it's scratchy, and maybe I'll understand why nobody in the UK, or at least at The Contrabass Shoppe, will ever buy a record of me.

This is Spirocore Stark, at the time I recorded this, they were two months old.

Best
Sidecar

PS- As I said, I know I shouldn't do this, but I feel this "Spiros sound awful with the bow PERIOD." thing has to stop.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Thumpie

Maybe so. But then you'd need a setting for both pizz and arco.

Get an outboard eq stomp box, not that big a deal...

[Amin]

For bowing purposes I highly recommend Spirocore mittel in the 4/4 set.
They have a more complex and warmer sound and they bow easier..
Give them some days, they need some time to settle down..
Hope this helps.

[eerbrev]

Can't beat the low strings for volume and clarity, man. Definitely a bowable option, they're just operator sensitive .

[bssist]

Originally Posted by MrSidecar

I know I shouldn't be doing this, but something got me started. So please excuse me.

And I know this ain't Koussevitzky. But give it a listen and tell me it's scratchy, and maybe I'll understand why nobody in the UK, or at least at The Contrabass Shoppe, will ever buy a record of me.

This is Spirocore Stark, at the time I recorded this, they were two months old.

Best
Sidecar

PS- As I said, I know I shouldn't do this, but I feel this "Spiros sound awful with the bow PERIOD." thing has to stop.

Very nice! I do however have the RTAS anti-scratch plug-in running.

[damonsmith]

They not the best things for blending in a section but any serious bassist who can't get a clean arco sound from Spiros needs to practice more!
This has been brought up again and again - they have more overtone content. If you can't control the overtones, it won't sound good - if you can you have a huge range of good, clean arco sounds instead of the one or two clean sounds "arco" or "hybrid" strings have.

[Ryanpet42]

Originally Posted by Thumpie

I use Spiros. You can bow them, but they not arco strings. Try something like Bel Cantos to know try what *real* arco strings are really all about. There are some things I cannot do with Spiros. It's a trade off. I daresay *no one* plays Spiros because of the arco response. They are tolerated because the pizz is so good.

Thumpie, I bow the mittels, and I originally put them on for better a better jazz sound than my Evahs. However, they sound more expressive and more singing arco, whereas the Evahs sound a little like the bass is holding back.

[kscbass]

My luthier who happens to be one of the top classical bassists in south florida uses Spiro mittels on his 100+ Italian bass. He said he got tired of not being able to hear himself in a section. When he bows my bass which has two month old spiro mittels...oh my god!!! No scratchiness beautiful clear tone!!!
Just my two cents.

[koricancowboy]

So much myth surrounding these strings. I bought in to the whole scratchy bow, different bow technique, more harmonics, etc. I just switched to mittels on the bottom (obligato on the top) and needed no adjustment and have no more trouble than I did with the bel cantos they replaced. I think if you have trouble bowing them then you have trouble bowing. Scratching in my experience comes from bowing too hard, skating, improper bow
placement or distribution. YMMV, IMHO, etc.

[MaxJohnson]

I too switched to Spiros from Bel Cantos, Evahs before that, and have had no dropoff in bowing. In fact, the strings sound stronger and more powerful than ever before. I've been converted to a spiro guy.

[koricancowboy]

Yep they're great. The recommendation came from two CSO players and a Lyric Opera player. Glad I listened. I use the obligatos because I don't like the way steel strings sound up top. Too much like a cello. I say that now but just a little while ago I was in the Spiro hard to bow train so...

[Ryanpet42]

Originally Posted by koricancowboy

I use the obligatos because I don't like the way steel strings sound up top.

I recently switched my top strings back to Evahs because on my bass the Spiro D and G were too bright. It wasn't that they were hard to bow, but they didn't sound as good as the A and the E. I remember a similar problem happening when I used OFCs. I however like the Evah Weichs better than the Obligatos mainly because the Evahs are a little stiffer and the Obligatos are a higher tension and floppier string.

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by Ryanpet42

I recently switched my top strings back to Evahs because on my bass the Spiro D and G were too bright. It wasn't that they were hard to bow, but they didn't sound as good as the A and the E. I remember a similar problem happening when I used OFCs. I however like the Evah Weichs better than the Obligatos mainly because the Evahs are a little stiffer and the Obligatos are a higher tension and floppier string.

I thought about the Evahs but didn't want risk it. How are they tonally in comparison? I wouldn't mind a little more pushing back at me but the obligatos sound really good.

[Ryanpet42]

I would say that they are a little warmer and are a little louder and well-balanced frequency-wise. In my experience, the Obligatos are more for people who play 2/3 Jazz and 1/3 Classical, and Evahs are for people who do both. Arco, they are warmer and the pizz between them is about the same, Evahs having a little less growl on the A and E strings and more on the D and Gs. Not as much as Spiros, but it is more natural sounding.

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by Ryanpet42

I would say that they are a little warmer and are a little louder and well-balanced frequency-wise. In my experience, the Obligatos are more for people who play 2/3 Jazz and 1/3 Classical, and Evahs are for people who do both. Arco, they are warmer and the pizz between them is about the same, Evahs having a little less growl on the A and E strings and more on the D and Gs. Not as much as Spiros, but it is more natural sounding.

I'll have to check em out when these obligatos die. Btw, my teacher, who plays in the Lyric Opera of Chicago exclusively uses obligatos.

[moles]

Just to blow everyone's minds here: I've been working seriously on getting some arco chops for realistically less than a year now, and I can't bow Evah's nearly as well as Spirocores (both in the Weich gauge, but IIRC the same would be true at this point for Spiro Mittels) This goes both for sound quality as well as mundane concerns like just getting the string started. This is true on both of my basses.

Point being, I don't even think it's a question of having solid technique, 'cause I sure don't YMMV and all that, but for me they just work.

[G-force]

Originally Posted by Thumpie

I use Spiros. You can bow them, but they not arco strings. Try something like Bel Cantos to know try what *real* arco strings are really all about. There are some things I cannot do with Spiros. It's a trade off. I daresay *no one* plays Spiros because of the arco response. They are tolerated because the pizz is so good.

I am sorry but where do you get this from ?
I play spiros because of their arco response. I know several pro classical players who do.
I have tried everything and always come back to spiros. WHY?

two reasons.
1. my bass is super smooth and can tolerate the brightness
2. I make it my business to pay close attention at all times to how I bow.

I would say most players who speak negatively about these strings do so because they bow them as they would any other "orch" string. Those who do this always fail.

Spiros were NEVER meant soley as a jazz/pizz string. They have become this in the wake of all the super easy arco strings.

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by Thumpie

I use Spiros. You can bow them, but they not arco strings. Try something like Bel Cantos to know try what *real* arco strings are really all about. There are some things I cannot do with Spiros. It's a trade off. I daresay *no one* plays Spiros because of the arco response. They are tolerated because the pizz is so good.

Joe Guastafeste used Starks his whole career. As principal bass of the CSO I'm not sure if he tolerated them for the pizz sound.

[drurb]

With all the different opinions, I thought I'd throw mine in. All of the following applies to me and my basses. I make no claim about what will or does work for others.

During the classical-playing portion of my life, the string of choice was the Lycons. It just so happened that that turned out to be true for pizz. as well! Okay, enough of the nostalgia.

The most impressive string I've used recently in terms of arco was the Evah weichs. Smooth start, thundering rich arco sound.

The Dominants, which my bass would now be wearing but for the breakage issues, was also quite nice.

I now have Spiro mitts on there. Granted, my arco chops are not anything close to what they once were when I was a symphony player. I find that the Spiro mitts require a more careful start and a bit more attention to technique. Still, just the other day when practicing arco I was impressed with how, after just a few minutes, I could pull a quite respectable sound from them. Now, take a player with better chops and a greater mix of arco playing and it's easy to see how the Spiro mitts are no problem.

One request... when you post about Spiros and arco, please tell us which Spiros (e.g., weich, mitt, stark) are being discussed.

YMMV, IME, IMHO...