buying gut strings: which ones?

[gbarchus]

I hope you guys will help me out. I just starting playing upright bass again this last year after about a 10 year layoff, mostly bluegrass, R&B, country and rockabilly. Although, I dutifully played through Simandl in junior high before switching to electric in high school, the Beatles and all that, you know.

I thought I'd try a "low-cost" carved bass (Gliga Gems II) after owning two Kays. Well, you get what you pay for, as someone said. I started again first with Spirocore mediums and discovered they were too hard on my 59 year old hands. Since I am trying to wade through Kohn and Kusbit's, Simandl with my Finale German bow, I tried some lower-tension Belcantos but still having problems with the left hand.

I would love to play gut strings again (I played LaBellas for 10 years) but I'm living in Japan and have had all kinds of humidity problems with all my basses (electric ones, too), even with a dehumidifier. So, I'm reluctant to try guts. I put a set of Lambert Deluxe on just so I could practice every day but they are not satisfying since I'm not slapping and they don't bow well.

Recently, I've just about decided to get a set of gut strings. I looked at some varnished Toro (European) strings here in Japan but they are over $500. Because of the humidity I worry about spending a lot of money. What do you guys think about Lemur varnished gut strings at $333.79? ...or (Upton's) Clef at $250.00 with wound A and E? Are Gamut strings that much more expensive?

I hope I've given you enough information to comment.

Gale

[William Hoffman]

Originally Posted by gbarchus

...I started again first with Spirocore mediums and discovered they were too hard on my 59 year old hands. Since I am trying to wade through Kohn and Kusbit's, Simandl with my Finale German bow, I tried some lower-tension Belcantos but still having problems with the left hand.

I would love to play gut strings again (I played LaBellas for 10 years) but I'm living in Japan and have had all kinds of humidity problems with all my basses (electric ones, too), even with a dehumidifier. So, I'm reluctant to try guts. I put a set of Lambert Deluxe on just so I could practice every day but they are not satisfying since I'm not slapping and they don't bow well.

Recently, I've just about decided to get a set of gut strings. I looked at some varnished Toro (European) strings here in Japan but they are over $500. Because of the humidity I worry about spending a lot of money. What do you guys think about Lemur varnished gut strings at $333.79? ...or (Upton's) Clef at $250.00 with wound A and E? Are Gamut strings that much more expensive?

Gale

i play Gamuts, a full set, and love em. i can't compare Gamuts with the others you mention, although i did buy Lenzners when i first tried gut, and the Gamuts are far superior to those. a high-quality set that will last a long time will also sound better than the cheapest set you can get. guts do last a long time, like many years.

btw it's not just humidity per se but FLUCTUATIONS in humidity and temperature that cause the wound E and A guts to fall flat or go sharp and hence need tuning. the plain G and D guts are fairly resistant to humidity changes. Marcus here on TB plays gut and lives in Hawaii and says the humidity there is stable -- thus he hasn't reported problems like that...

just my $0.02.

Bill

[lucas vigor]

Agreed 100%! It's not humidity that was ever a problem when I used all guts...it was when the weather suddenly became really dry and arid (Santa ana winds). Just like with a real skin drum head, the tension would go up enough to make them snap if I kept the bass in the garage and did not detune after playing!

[Marcus Johnson]

You could always do the seasonal thing... buy some guts, and use them on your bass as long as they behave themselves. Put something else on when they don't.

A full set of Gamuts will be quite a bit more expensive than the sets you mentioned. Probably five bills by the time you get them sent to Japan. Worth every penny, IMHO. They don't really remind me of any other guts that I've tried (still haven't played Dlugoleckis, though, which are apparently excellent). They're just a quantum leap beyond.

Another option might be to put guts on top, and match them to something more stable on the bottom. Lots of people do that. You could probably even use the La Bellas in that capacity, since the top strings aren't too shabby... the bottom ones are a little too much "plonk" for my tastes.

Japan does have some wild climatic swings at times. Here in Hawai'i, it's not an issue.

[juuzek]

I do the season switch that Marcus mentions- I play a full set of Dlugoleki's in the summer and take off the wound gut E and A in the winter when the air is very dry.

Try keep the plain gut strings dry in exsessively humid days: I had a few spots of fraying this summer on my plain G after a spell of crazy humidity. But a few clips later and its as good as new.

[JeffKissell]

I have had the wound E & A of the Lemur Euro (Efrano) set on my bass but they are now part of my spare set along with a D & G I got used here on TB. I think the varnished full set would be fine and humidity in and of itself should not be a problem. As others have said rapid changes in humidity and temperature are the problem. Go for it!!
-J

[Marcus Johnson]

The things that sets the premium guts apart from the more budget priced sets are the quality of the materials, and the finish. Some cheaper guts are just too "hairy" for me to deal with. But I've often wondered if it would be worthwhile for a guy to hot-rod his own lower priced guts strings; trim or singe off the hairs, and them hit 'em with a quick coat of varnish. I know Ken Smith varnished some guts himself at some point; I remember him mentioning it.

[Francois Blais]

Did you try Innovation Braided strings? (140B set)
They have a braided synthetic core, and are wrapped with flat metal.
It's their arco string.

[lucas vigor]

Are most of you high-end gut people using wound E and A?

[Marcus Johnson]

I am. Copper wound Gamuts. Phenomenal strings.

[Nathan Parker]

I would encourage you to try the Pirastro Chorda line of strings. It seems that most people here use Gamut or Damian Dlugolecki strings, but to me, the Chorda's have more of that old school sound. Probably not as versatile as the American made strings, but I think they capture the old school jazz bass sound better.

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by lucas vigor

Are most of you high-end gut people using wound E and A?

I did but gave up on it. The weather in Pittsburgh is just too unpredictable. It's not so bad when it's warm or hot but when it's cold, the strings go sharp. Detuning takes the pressure off of the top. On more than one gig, I had to detune the A two full steps. The bass sounded like a washtub by the end. I'm trying Animas right now but I was using Garbos. I haven't given the Animas much of a shot yet but I'm thinking I prefer Garbos.

mark

[Bobby King]

I like Super Sensitive Sensicores for the E&A, not expensive. Velvets are good too, cost more. Wound gut isn't really worth it, IMO. Low budget -- Lenzner or Efrano Gut D&G, OK. High budget -- Gamut Pistoy Gut D&G, great!

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Bobby King

Wound gut isn't really worth it, IMO.

For people with climatic issues, maybe. But I couldn't disagree more strongly in my situation. YMMV

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

For people with climatic issues, maybe. But I couldn't disagree more strongly in my situation. YMMV

Whaddaya mean climactic issues? I ain't got no climatic issues. The wife likes me just fine...excuse me? That's not what you meant? Nevermind.

[gbarchus]

Thanks!

From what I hear, I should either try a synthetic string set that's close to a gut (traditional) sound, or get the top two Gamut (Pistoy?) and try some wound strings for the E and A.

Anyone using Animas with Gamut? I hear they bow better than Garbos.

Gale

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by gbarchus

Thanks!

From what I hear, I should either try a synthetic string set that's close to a gut (traditional) sound, or get the top two Gamut (Pistoy?) and try some wound strings for the E and A.

Anyone using Animas with Gamut? I hear they bow better than Garbos.

Gale

I currently have Animas on with Gamuts but I really don't bow. Animas have a rougher surface than Garbos so I would imagine they grab the bow better.

The decision to go with the Lyons or the Pistoys depends on a couple of factors. The Lyons have a more old school gut sound. They start slower and recover slower so they are more challenging than Pistoys to play fast on. The Pistoys don't have as many overtones to the sound so they don't have as big of that gut bloom to the sound. If you solo a lot, Pistoys will be easier to play on. If you don't, Lyons are REALLY nice. Mixing and matching are nice too. Lyon G with a Pistoy D is a heavenly combination. On both of my basses, the Pistoy D sounded like a lower pitched version of the Lyon G. The Lyon D was a bit less focussed.

mark

[uncle Bob]

since the unfortunate events of Mad Cow the availability of fine quality gut has been difficult to harvest
Remember the amount of competition there is for good quality gut.
We must compete with teh sports industry (tennis), the medical community, and a host of other firms, in the food chain(hot dogs and such).
Since we maintain we must have the finest quality we are the last to receive our needs.
Truly nothing beats the sound of good gut on an upright, For that matter gut when of the finest quality on any stringed instrument is certainly marvelous. Trouble is that in todays world many find the correct care and use of gut is a chore. This is true, if you are not focused.
At LaBella, we began doing gut in house in the late 1300's.
We brought the process over the years to America in the 1920's when th firm opened a branch in New York City. As you are well aware because of the standards set by the EPA, we found it was not any longet practical for us to continue making gut in house. The Mad cow thing sealed any notion of doing in house manufacture of gut as it certainly was a lengthy process and at best a smelly process.
Richard Cocco Jr together with Ron CArter developed our model 7710 Black Nylon set to allow the stability and nearest sound of gut without the care and focus needed to maintain.
We still produce our model 980 gut set, but it does dictate a certain amount of care and focus. IN these modern times many players take their strings for granted, and for one, gut is not to be taken for granted.
Remember, it must be truly maintained with care.
For many new players switching to gut for western or rock a billy we do offer our Super Nils. This set was developed so that there would be a set that was not vulnerable to the moisture and stood more than a normal amount of abuce.
It is a very price friendly set which takes an incredible amount of abuse. I think you could play outside in or under water and they will still perform admirably...
The key word in all of this is Performance. Merely words will not soound great on a bass. Think reasonably, and choose sensibly before you purchase, as you see there is a lot to consider....But remember the weather and your care are the most important focus when it comes to deciding toplay on gut.

[drew_bassmore]

Originally Posted by gbarchus

Anyone using Animas with Gamut? I hear they bow better than Garbos.

I presently have Velvet Anima E&A, and Gamut Pistoy D, Lyon G. I switched from EP Weich E&A. After the Animas settled in, I experienced a much more balanced sound across all strings. Strangely, the combination seems to have brightened the sound of the guts (clarity wise).

Originally Posted by calivox

Animas have a rougher surface than Garbos so I would imagine they grab the bow better.

I have no experience with Garbos, but I went with Animas for that reputation. I would tend to agree that the Animas grab well. The Arco sound is much more balanced across all the strings too.

Changing up my rosin helped. From Carllson to Nyman. It has made a discernible difference.

[Marcus Johnson]

uncle Bob... thanks for your insider input. I have to say.... the 7710 black nylon strings are nice, but they don't remind me of the gut experience in the least... that didn't make sense to me the first time either! The Supernyls are much closer to the gut sound for me, although the feel is completely different. No biggie, just a little confusing.

Also, I'm curious as to how the mad cow thing affected the supply of mutton serosa. I was under the impression that mad cow mainly affected the distribution of beef products for human consumption. Again, no biggie, just a "gut nerd" question....