Compas 180: SUIT or regular?

[TonyD]

Hi all,

I have been playing Pirastro Flatchromesteel solo strings for a while now, together with Spirocore E string. When playing arco I use solo tuning, for pizz orchestra tuning. Great strings, but tuning them up and down is not that handy

I want to go back to Velvet Compas 180 and I doubt between SUIT or regular version. What I would like to know is if the regular have a better bow response than the suit when tuned in orchestra pitch. Since the regular have more tension (26 kp on a 105-106 mensur, wheras SUIT have 24 kp) I would assumme that this is the case. But I am not sure.

Anyone experiences with difference in bow response between SUIT and regular in orchestra pitch?

Thanks,
TonyD

[DoubleMIDI]

If you want to bow you should better get the new Classico set fom Velvet. It has the same tension as the Compas 180 (regular), but bows better and with a softer sound.

For tuning up to solo tuning and down to orchestral, I would not use the regular tension set for orchestra tuning. I don't know if the Classico are also made in solo tuning. If not, you should better stick to the Compas 180 SUIT set to tune up and down.

But I think tuning up and down may harm the string after some time, at least with non-steel core strings like te Velvets and some others.

[marco zomer]

Hello Double Midi

I'm curious about the Velvet Classico's. Can you compare them with Pirastro Permanents for example? Did you have any chanche to try them out again after you got a replacement set from Velvet?

Marco

[TonyD]

Originally Posted by DoubleMIDI

If you want to bow you should better get the new Classico set fom Velvet. It has the same tension as the Compas 180 (regular), but bows better and with a softer sound.

For tuning up to solo tuning and down to orchestral, I would not use the regular tension set for orchestra tuning. I don't know if the Classico are also made in solo tuning. If not, you should better stick to the Compas 180 SUIT set to tune up and down.

But I think tuning up and down may harm the string after some time, at least with non-steel core strings like te Velvets and some others.

Yes I read about the new Classico set, but I am afraid that pizz is much less then Compas 180.

But to repeat my question: is there a better arco response with the regular set than with the SUIT version in orchestra tuning? I would think so, because tension difference is 2 kp or is it barely noticable?

[DoubleMIDI]

I never used Permanents, so unfortunately I cannot help you.

Since I am so happy with the Innovation 140B on my bass, I haven't tried the Classico again (and also because they don't have a Classico high C and the Compas 180 high C is much brighter and doesn't fit sonically).
I'm still searching for a good and not too thin high C first and try the sets if I found one (or if I got some set for free/testing, which happens sometimes).
Maybe I should try the Classico again at the beginning of the next year.
I'm just afraid the additional tension would kill my fingers during the big band rehersal ...

The Classico looses a bit of attack on pizz, so it depends what kind of pizz you like, a bit more soft one or a bit more aggressive one. I think, for pizz, a mix of Compas 180 on the lower strings (E, A, probably D) and Classico on the higher strings (D, G) might be nice. So there is still the attack power in the lower strings and some sweetness in the middle and higher notes.
I would use the Classico for 50/50 arco/pizz, but the Compas 180 for 10/90 arco pizz. I think there are better pure arco strings, but the Classico is useable after some accomodation for arco only.

About the regular vs. SUIT:
Unfortunately I killed my SUIT high C string about a year ago, so I can no longer compare it to the regular one. I think the SUIT will sink a little bit more with some weight on the bow (because of the lower tension), but I think it might sound a little bit softer or respond a bit nicer to the bow start. But this is more guessing than experience.

[TonyD]

Originally Posted by DoubleMIDI

I never used Permanents, so unfortunately I cannot help you.

Since I am so happy with the Innovation 140B on my bass, I haven't tried the Classico again (and also because they don't have a Classico high C and the Compas 180 high C is much brighter and doesn't fit sonically).
I'm still searching for a good and not too thin high C first and try the sets if I found one (or if I got some set for free/testing, which happens sometimes).
Maybe I should try the Classico again at the beginning of the next year.
I'm just afraid the additional tension would kill my fingers during the big band rehersal ...

Hi DoubleMidi, is the tension of the Classico that high? I thought it was the same as regular: 26 kp on 106 mensur. I think you play a bass of 109 mensur, on which the Classico' will have a tension of approx. 29 kp. Would that kill your fingers?

[DoubleMIDI]

Yes, the Classico has the same tension as the regular Compas 180.

If I'm not used to the higher tension, because I play the lower tension Innovation 140B for over a year now, I probably might get problems during two hours of almost uninterrupted walking bass.
And I have a little problem with my middle finger of my right hand at the moment, so I try to avaoid a higher tension at the moment.
29 kp are usually no problem, I liked the S42W 4/4 Spiro Weich which have a similar tension, but again no high C string for 4/4 Weich.
I usually dig into the string a lot, I'm not one of the slight touch players using a lot of amplification.
And I cannot play during the next two weeks, at least not on my acoustic bass. So I might put the Classico/Compas180 on the bass again for two weeks after the next big band job close to the end of January.

Yes, the higher tension on my now 110cm scale adds up some tension. But maybe it is the style of my playing on these strings that changes with the sound of the strings.

I'm probably more thinking in Compas 180 than Classico, since I need to use the Compas 180 high C with them. (And this high C series has it's own problems.) So I was happy when I got a better quality Innovation 140B high C and liked to stick with these strings. But this is totally high C related (and to my feel of string diameters) and I think 99% of the bass players don't need to care about that.

Well if I would practice a bit more, My hand would probably be a bit stronger. But the other reason is that I often play 4-finger open hand now and this is easier with a lower tension string.

[TonyD]

Originally Posted by DoubleMIDI

The Classico looses a bit of attack on pizz, so it depends what kind of pizz you like, a bit more soft one or a bit more aggressive one. I think, for pizz, a mix of Compas 180 on the lower strings (E, A, probably D) and Classico on the higher strings (D, G) might be nice. So there is still the attack power in the lower strings and some sweetness in the middle and higher notes.

Hi DoubleMIDI,

I like the more aggressive pizz attack. So in this case you recommend a mix of Compas 180 on the lower strings (E, A, probably D) and Classico on the higher strings (D, G)?

Is there a big difference in pizz attack between Compas 180 E and A and Classico E and A?

Thanks for your help,

TonyD

[DoubleMIDI]

Yes, the Compas 180 pizz attack is brighter.

I wouldn't say that I would recommend the mix, but if you want more definition of attack on the low(er) string(s), it might be a good idea to use the Compas 180 E (and probably A). Other people do this with a Spiro Mittel E with strings of a different set on the other strings.

For pizz only the Compas 180 are better. Specially for a more modern sound. The bowing is a bit delicate, not easy to get a nice bowed sound. The Classico is a bit more forgiving in this respect and less aggressive with pizz but still with a soft attack. Not bad for orchestra, chamber music and "cocktail" jazz. I wouldn't like to play the Compas 180 in an orchestra, it wouldn't mix well with typical orchestra strings on the other basses (it's rather a solo string for people with really good bowing chops and stands out), the Classico would do the orchestral job better. But for orchestra only, I would probably choose something else.

[TonyD]

Can you compare Classico with Belcanto and Compas 180 with Spirocore?

[DoubleMIDI]

Well, not with Belcanto. I never tried a Belcanto, classical solo bowing is not my domain and I want some sustain when playing pizz.

The Compas 180 seems to have a similar tension as Spirocore Weich 3/4 or Spirocore Mittel 4/4 (S42), maybe a bit less, but I might be wrong because this is more from MY feel of playing, the real tension is more similar to Spirocore Weich 4/4 (S42W) and maybe Spirocore Solo 3/4.

The brightness of the Compas 180 has something in common with the Spirocore brightness compared to other synthetic braided core strings that are generally a bit darker. I think I need to hear the bass from the distance in a larger room (or need to make a recording in such a room of myself). Maybe I like the sound then and accept the rather scatchy bowing in the players ear.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year, I might go offline for a week or a bit longer.