Creating a New String Sample Website

[emilio g]

A friend of mine is a broadcast engineer that also does recording and video, AND has access to a nice big room to record in. His specialty is doing really, really clean, not-colored recordings so he has thousands of dollars in amazing gear (several earthworks mics, metric halo preamps/converters, milennia preamps and lots more..). He's happy to record me at a big discount cause we've been buds since middle school.

So the other day I was entertaining the thought of setting up a website and posting samples of different strings recorded close and at a distance with a variety of musical examples from the standard rep (orch excerpts, solo rep, standard jazz tunes, scales, etc.). I've already discussed the idea with him, sent links to similar websites and we think we can create something that is very high quality and accurate.

Through friends and my own collection, I have access to the following strings right now:

Spiro Mittels (the 3/4 version)
Spiro Weich (3/4)
Original Flexocor
Permanents
Kolstein Varicore
Belcanto
Evah Pirazzi Weich

Any questions, suggestions, and/or comments are encouraged. If you think this is a fantastic idea or a total waste of money and time let me know and more importantly, tell me why.

[geoffbassist]

Sounds like a great idea!

Might be a good time to buy a string winder :-)

[theweed42]

Excellent idea. Good luck to you!

[Ed Fuqua]

I'm just not sure how you're going to record how all of these different strings sound on my bass...

[drurb]

I wouldn't say it's a total waste of time but it might be less useful than you think. If you go through the string threads here, you'll find that the interactions among strings, basses, players, styles, etc. are quite large. Sure, there are some broad generalizations that hold. For example, I think on virtually any bass in the world, Spiro mitts will sound brighter than EP weichs. It's likely that the differences we'd here among strings on your bass may not be representative of the differences we'd hear on our own basses. Different basses respond differently to different string tensions. Who among us has not experienced a given string sounding like a total dog on one bass and just wonderful on another?

Even on a single bass, differences among strings could, potentially, change at different string heights. Furthermore, "feel" and style of play interacts with the ultimate sound so, the bass aside, different players will squeeze out different differences among strings. Finally, how long would you let each string "settle" on your bass before recording? Weeks?

Again, listening to the recordings you might make could be instructive with regard to a broad overview but one could still not usefully choose a string based on the recordings. Useful or not, it would still be fun to hear what you might come up with.

[Eddue]

I usually find that the A and D (or III and II) to be the best representation of what a set sounds like, so here's my suggestion:

Put 2 A (III) or 2 D (II) strings on the bass (middle strings) at the same time to compare the similarities or differences. for instances: a spirocore mittle A and a spirocore weich A. or a flexocore D with a Bel Canto D. How about a varicore A and an Evah A? Since you only have access to the strings listed you can make the most of the recordings by comparing to different strings at the same time for pizz and arco.

I think that would be more interesting than just another recording of different sets of strings played on the same bass.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Eddue

I usually find that the A and D (or III and II) to be the best representation of what a set sounds like, so here's my suggestion:

Put 2 A (III) or 2 D (II) strings on the bass (middle strings) at the same time to compare the similarities or differences. for instances: a spirocore mittle A and a spirocore weich A. or a flexocore D with a Bel Canto D. How about a varicore A and an Evah A? Since you only have access to the strings listed you can make the most of the recordings by comparing to different strings at the same time for pizz and arco.

I think that would be more interesting than just another recording of different sets of strings played on the same bass.

Hmm... interesting. This assumes that the sound of a single string is not substantially influenced by the resonances of the other strings present and by the tension they put on the top as a set.

[Eddue]

My suggestion was mainly for comparing 2 strings at the same time and not to imply how any string would react on any given bass or with any other strings and their differences in tension or resonances.

Just 2 different A strings or 2 different D strings played on the same bass at the same time, along with I and IV strings to provide normal tension to he bass.

Just a simple experiment, not trying to make any statements on how these strings will react or sound or play on any and every bass, with any other strings and their tensions or to any bassists who might play them.

[Eddue]

Originally Posted by drurb

Hmm... interesting. This assumes that the sound of a single string is not substantially influenced by the resonances of the other strings present and by the tension they put on the top as a set.

Yes, let's make that assumption!

[emilio g]

Originally Posted by drurb

I wouldn't say it's a total waste of time but it might be less useful than you think. If you go through the string threads here, you'll find that the interactions among strings, basses, players, styles, etc. are quite large. Sure, there are some broad generalizations that hold. For example, I think on virtually any bass in the world, Spiro mitts will sound brighter than EP weichs. It's likely that the differences we'd here among strings on your bass may not be representative of the differences we'd hear on our own basses. Different basses respond differently to different string tensions. Who among us has not experienced a given string sounding like a total dog on one bass and just wonderful on another?

Even on a single bass, differences among strings could, potentially, change at different string heights. Furthermore, "feel" and style of play interacts with the ultimate sound so, the bass aside, different players will squeeze out different differences among strings. Finally, how long would you let each string "settle" on your bass before recording? Weeks?

Again, listening to the recordings you might make could be instructive with regard to a broad overview but one could still not usefully choose a string based on the recordings. Useful or not, it would still be fun to hear what you might come up with.

Good stuff to get me really thinking hard about this! I was planning on letting the strings settle for 2 weeks (at least) before recording them. Unfortunately, as the project unfolds, this would introduce more variables. Some strings would be recorded in warmer more humid weather and others would be recorded in cooler, less humid weather... and as we all know, the weather changes how the bass responds to any strings. And as Mr. Fuqua pointed out, there is no substitute for playing strings on your own instrument with your own hands. At the end of the day we can't say exactly what any string sounds like by itself because we're always hearing strings on a bass, played by a human being.

Since there are so many variables involved (and other websites which have done similar recordings), I think the most I could hope to do is help clarify some of the generalizations we make. For instance, I would call Spirocores and Permanents bright strings but Perms are a different kind of bright than Spiros and I have found it to be kind of tricky to articulate exactly what that difference is.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by emilio g

Good stuff to get me really thinking hard about this! I was planning on letting the strings settle for 2 weeks (at least) before recording them. Unfortunately, as the project unfolds, this would introduce more variables. Some strings would be recorded in warmer more humid weather and others would be recorded in cooler, less humid weather... and as we all know, the weather changes how the bass responds to any strings. And as Mr. Fuqua pointed out, there is no substitute for playing strings on your own instrument with your own hands. At the end of the day we can't say exactly what any string sounds like by itself because we're always hearing strings on a bass, played by a human being.

Since there are so many variables involved (and other websites which have done similar recordings), I think the most I could hope to do is help clarify some of the generalizations we make. For instance, I would call Spirocores and Permanents bright strings but Perms are a different kind of bright than Spiros and I have found it to be kind of tricky to articulate exactly what that difference is.

Well then, onward... and thank you for taking up this challenge!

[Tha Ridla]

Good plan but someone's already done it!

http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php

It's quite interesting to listen to the samples and how subtle the difference between sets.

I also think an important element of string choice is the FEEL of the strings. I tried velvet garbo. Quite liked the sound but could not get used to the oversized feel! Then on the first gig my tendonitis (which is normally dormant) flared up. Bad news. I traded them for a set of Spirocore!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Tharidla

[eerbrev]

Originally Posted by Tha Ridla

Good plan but someone's already done it!

http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php

It's quite interesting to listen to the samples and how subtle the difference between sets.

I also think an important element of string choice is the FEEL of the strings. I tried velvet garbo. Quite liked the sound but could not get used to the oversized feel! Then on the first gig my tendonitis (which is normally dormant) flared up. Bad news. I traded them for a set of Spirocore!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Tharidla

I think he's planning on making another one to add on to the knowledge already imparted by this one.

I think it's an awesome idea. If I had the cash, I'd go for it myself, but I'm a poor student.

If I could make a request though: Would you be able to do a more substantial arco test than the one on the previously quoted site? that one is incomplete (not done on all the strings), and as a mainly arco player it's something I know that I , as well as a few others on this site would be interested in.

regards, and good luck,

Alex

[emilio g]

Originally Posted by eerbrev

If I could make a request though: Would you be able to do a more substantial arco test than the one on the previously quoted site? that one is incomplete (not done on all the strings), and as a mainly arco player it's something I know that I , as well as a few others on this site would be interested in.

regards, and good luck,

Alex

That was one of the things I was going to try and improve on. I was planning on doing one clip up close to the bass and another 30 or 40 feet away. I also want to use orchestral excerpts. Its stuff everyone should be familiar with, and I'll probably learn a lot about my own playing in the process.

[longfinger]

Best of luck with this.

I suggestion I have is one concerning volume. For live playing, how loud a string is at its max is important. When recording though, if the track is normalized, then even quiet strings can become loud, and loud strings can be kept quiet. So perhaps it would be good to have a special sound to set the volume to be normalized, and then let the bass strings volume exist under that. This could help us hear how some strings project more than others.

[waltwallace]

I listened to some of the samples at http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php
and comparing Spiro mittel to Pirastro EP, the Spiro's are much louder. I'm curious if that was due to differences in the recordings, or differences in how the player played, or if the strings themselves were that much louder on the bass. I'm assuming he was going for the idea like yours - similar recording setup and playing on the same bass with different strings. Of course it could be very different on another instrument, but I'd hesitate to switch to EP strings if I was going to lose that much volume.

[Ed Fuqua]

Wall To Wallace? Is that you? We met at Sofia's a little while back, we both play with Jon Raney from time to time....

[waltwallace]

Sure, I remember stopping by Sofia's when you and Jon were there.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by waltwallace

I'd hesitate to switch to EP strings if I was going to lose that much volume.

My bass was louder than it had ever been before with EPs.