Currently got helicores. Looking for a change. Need Velvet advice

mr mastodon · #1 02-26-2011, 09:54 PM

I play a Samuel Shen SB-100 set up, for jazz by nick Lloyd, used. It came with spiro mittels. Well after a few months I wanted to experiment. Found someone wanted a used spiro set for a helicores set. So I got the hybrids in a trade. Can't remember enough about the spiros since I had been relatively new to bass. They seemed pretty dead though.

Well after a year of helicores I feel set back. I raised the action because I was getting a lot of undesirable string noise being so close to the fingerboard. And I had bad volume issues. Except I still do. When raising the action I used to Ron Carter rule of being able to get a number 2 pencil underneath the strings at the end of the fingerboard.

Well I hate amplification. I've a david Gage realist that came with the bass. Very weak signal I've noticed. But even then I'm not a fan of the whole piezo tone thing.

So I pull the absolute crap out of the helicores hybrids on there now. And still need an amp. So I want a louder string. And something that sounds more like Wilbur ware's tone on sonny rollins at the village vanguard.

So I've been thinking about getting some velvet garbos when the moneys right. But as a relatively broke college kid $270 is pretty steep. If it's going to be an investment I'll be more than happy to. I've heard lots of guys say they're loud as hell whereas others say guts always lose in the loudness competition with steels. Which makes sense to me. With low tension, I can't imagine putting steels to shame. But I hear that's the case more often than not.

Basically I want more projection and an older sam jones like tone. Are these mutually exclusive or are something like garbos for me?

Obviously y'all aren't fortune tellers, but a ballpark estimate perhaps.

EDIT: sorry, original thread was written on my phone so excuse the typos and short sentences. meant to add i know garbos aren't quite gut, but i can't afford $450 gamuts so ...

TroyK · #2 02-26-2011, 10:16 PM

Well, you're describing gut string tone. Nothing else sounds like that, though some things mimic it.

Might check out the gut strings on urbbob.com or read some theads for affordable guts.

Volume, on the other hand, comes from a lot of places, however. Its hard to say what impact strings alone will have. Just a warning.

davpal · #3 02-27-2011, 09:18 AM

You might try the Velvet Blues - less expensive than the Garbos. They put out a lot of sound and are easy on the fingers. A little bright when new but will settle in.

Eric Hochberg · #4 02-27-2011, 09:32 AM

If you want that real old school sound, get plain gut D and G. Then, wound guts for E and A, or Spiro, Evah, or any number of other metal wound strings. Volume and tone is not an issue of strings themselves, it's the product of the strings, bass, and your playing style. You'll have to experiment, and happily, you'll probably be able to sell your unwanted strings here.

mr mastodon · #5 02-28-2011, 09:46 PM

Thanks for the advice guys. Asked my teacher about this and he said years ago he wanted guts for whatever reason and his luthier told him he couldn't fit the thick gut gauge into the thin built-for-steel nutslots (insert innuendo here)

Anyways I noticed even with my helicores the e and a bit of the a ride on the nut rather than in the groove. How much of an issue is this and how does it manifest itself (ie lack of volume, buzzing, etc)?

Is it worth getting a new nut/the grooves widened? As my teacher said "once wood is gone, it's gone."(insert junior high snickering once again)

Or should my next strings be something thin enough for the nut slots like weichs?

Greg Clinkingbeard · #6 02-28-2011, 10:24 PM

Nut grooves should be widened to fit your string of choice. In the event you might want to go with smaller diameter strings in the future, a luthier can replace the nut. It really is a minor issue in the scheme of all things bass.

mr mastodon · #7 03-01-2011, 12:36 AM

^ i had figured kinda, but wanted to check. don't know what costs typically are for such a thing. strings themselves are a pretty expensive venture. given, they are potentially a good investment.

raised my action yet again today at the teacher's suggestion (not surprising to anyone who knows him or has played his bass before, lol) and i like the extra volume from the raise. some thumb stuff i was previously doing is a bit rougher now, but with some work and shedding it should be fine.

however, i am still thinking about trying "guts". just given how much i love that old tone i think it'd be a good experiment. however, while i'm 90% pizz, there's that 10% arco. i've heard garbos and animas absolutely blow when bowed. any news on the blues? or any other gut-like string? evah pirazzi's?

Matt Ides · #8 03-01-2011, 05:58 AM

Try to grab a used set of EP or obligatos. See how you like those. They will be a step closer to the sound you want from the helicores. If they don't do it, then just go full gut. JMO.

Marc Piane · #9 03-01-2011, 06:29 AM

Animas aren't awful with the bow. I wouldn't take any classical jobs but they are ok for jazz.

davpal · #10 03-01-2011, 08:32 PM

Mr.Mastodon - you should buy the Garbo lights in the TB classifieds before someone else does! I don't have any experience with the Garbos but I thought both the Blues and Animas were quite easy to bow with my novice abilities.
The lights may not need any opening up of the slots in nut and bridge, either...

sevenyearsdown · #11 03-02-2011, 06:41 AM

I just switched to velvet garbos myself from innovations which were suppose to be gut-like. I've never played gut, but here are my observations based on the OP.

1. IMO Velvets are great strings, but nothing but gut sounds like gut. I've tried two different synthetics, and now Velvets. Lots of good strings out there in the gut-like category - but unless you're a slapper they will probably only get you part of the way there with the tone you are looking for.

2. If you are getting all kinds of buzz, you might need some luthier work done. At least get it checked out. If you keep raising string height and it isn't helping, you could eventually hurt your playing with tension increase.

3. Garbos do have really awesome volume acoustically. You can make them thunder when you get heavy handed. I've never bowed - all pizz player. The tension is comparable to innovation silvers. The pluck easy enough, but bounce around less than some other synthetics (which is a good thing). I've been able easilly raise my string height with them without getting a huge difference in feel. They are very responsive.

4. If you really want to try Garbos, or any Velvet string - keep your eyes on the classified ads. You'll probably save 100 bucks.