D'Addario Helicore Hybrid versus Innovation UltraBlacks

mkandolf · #1 06-10-2009, 10:07 AM

Hello everyone,

I just received my first very own UB this week. It's the new Gollihur Classic by Engelhardt. After having the bridge installed and a basic setup, we played it in the shop. The strings that came on it from the factory are very tinny and bright sounding. Too much so for me.

I play with our community concert band along with playing in area theater productions of musicals. I've also been asked to play as part of a flute/piano/bass trio. The amount of arco versus pizz. playing varies. I like playing both and hope to get into the local orchestra.

I want to get a warmer, darker tone out of this bass. I've been looking at either the Helicore Hybrid set or the UltraBlacks as possible replacements. My luthier said to avoid the UltraBlacks because they are no good at bowing, but things I've read differ with that opinion.

I'm also installing piezo pickups soon so I can play amplified when needed.

What are your thoughts and recommendations?

Tomasito · #2 06-10-2009, 10:27 AM

You might try Dominants, which are nice for arco and pizz. I think of them as pizz strings that just happen to have a good arco sound, but some players talk about them in the opposite way. Not a bad sign.

I find the Helicores a little bit nondescript. Although they probably will get you a warmer, darker sound, whether or not it's as detailed as it could be, particularly for pizzicato, seems to depend on the bass. The only guy I know who gets a decent sound out of them* has such tone in his hands that he could probably make anything sound good. I think I read that Christian McBride uses them, and he kind of fits the same profile.

Maybe give Mr Gollihur a call, if you haven't already. He'll probably have an insight.

*I realised that that sounded mean! I meant to say, 'A sound that I would aim for myself'. YMMV, RSVP, R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

kurt · #3 06-10-2009, 11:46 AM

I've tried both. Never liked the helicore hybrids. way too bright nasal and scratchy with the bow for my taste. The UB blacks are a pretty good hybrid string, warmer pizz but still good definition and and good but not exaggerated sustain. It's not the best arco string but not as bad as you would think for a nylon. You can get a good arco sound if you know what you're doing, not as scratchy as some steels, but the technique can be a bit tricky. They're more susceptible to having too much or too little rosin and the bow can slip if you're not careful. If you plan to play in an orchestra you might not want to go with them. I have the innovation rockabillys on now (same as the blacks but lower tension) and I actually like the arco tone now that i'm used to them, less steel scratch, and quick response, and don't slip as much with the bow. Really low tension though compared to steels.

You might want to try the new Evah Pirazzi Weich strings. Nylon core with steel windings. I haven't tried them but I had the regular gauge on before and they were great for pizz and arco, nice warm tone and easy to bow. The regulars are a bit stiff so The Weich (light) gauge would probably be even better.

tww001 · #4 06-10-2009, 12:26 PM

I haven't tried the Evah Perazzi's, but people rave about them all the time. It's funny though how much strings can vary based upon the bass they're on. Right now I have Helicores on my bass, orchestra on the bottom and hybrid on the top, and they are really well balanced and have a nice tone with both the bow and pizz. Depending on the bass, you can get a good pizz sound out of the helicore orchestras, albeit on the darker, thumpier side (which I like!).

kurt · #5 06-10-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tww001

I haven't tried the Evah Perazzi's, but people rave about them all the time. It's funny though how much strings can vary based upon the bass they're on. Right now I have Helicores on my bass, orchestra on the bottom and hybrid on the top, and they are really well balanced and have a nice tone with both the bow and pizz. Depending on the bass, you can get a good pizz sound out of the helicore orchestras, albeit on the darker, thumpier side (which I like!).

I liked the helicore light orchestras a lot more than the hybrids. I agree that strings are a lot different on different basses. I really like the rockabillys on one of my basses but on the other one, while they still sound good, are a lot floppier which, while I like low tension, are just a bit too floppy. The sound is fuller with less sustain too. A lot really does depend on the bass. But strings do have general characteristics. If someone says they have a particular string and want to go darker/brighter you can give some general ideas.

mkandolf, do you know what strings are on the bass now? What colour are the yarns at the tailpiece?

mkandolf · #6 06-12-2009, 06:02 AM

Thanks for the input people! I appreciate it. Guess I should have asked in the OP, but are all of you on laminated basses?

I think I'll break the current strings in (kurt I think they are all purple yarns, will check tonight) and then listen to some recordings and look for the sound I like/want. Then I'll give Bob and Mark Gollihur a call.

Tomasito · #7 06-12-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkandolf

Guess I should have asked in the OP, but are all of you on laminated basses?

Personally, yes, but I've played Helicores and Innovations (although not the ones you're talking about) on other people's carved basses. Helicores will bring out the detail in a bass that has it, but on a bass that doesn't - and I guess that might include a lot of ply basses - I'd sooner have Spirocores.

The cool thing about the Innovations that I tried was the detail in the string itself, and the growl, and the low tension (to my fingers).

I think a lot depends on the balance between how you want the bass to sound to you vs. how you want it to sound to the audience. Sometimes a string can sound kind of clattery and growly to the player, but smoother and darker to the audience. That's always my frustration with anything EXCEPT Spiros. I always miss the way they sound to me as I play. The focus of the sound is something I'd come to depend on.

mkandolf · #8 06-16-2009, 12:07 PM

Kurt, I confirmed, the yarn at the tailpiece is all the same color, purple.

The strings are warming a bit as I play, but still are tinny sounding.

davidAaronCarte · #9 06-16-2009, 08:24 PM

Have a set in the mail, I'm looking forward to giving them a try
Going to be pretty hard to shake me from my Spiros/Oliv G though

kurt · #10 06-17-2009, 12:19 PM

Hmmm, I don't know what purple yarns would be. Maybe try checking the string identification link in the Newbie links sticky in the strings forum.

Mark Gollihur · #11 06-18-2009, 03:15 PM

The strings that come on all Engelhardts (AFAIK) are LaBella RC610s - pretty much a $40 set of strings. They figure the first thing you're gonna do is swap 'em out anyway...

mkandolf · #12 06-19-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixandeightstringer

The strings that come on all Engelhardts (AFAIK) are LaBella RC610s - pretty much a $40 set of strings. They figure the first thing you're gonna do is swap 'em out anyway...

DING DING DING _ We have a WINNER!!! I just confirmed it from an old e-mail I dug up from Mark Gollihur when I asked them about ordering it with different strings. In the e-mail he said that's what they come with.

$40 set? No wonder they sound awful.