dark and stark

[Thomas Stone]

I've come to the conclusion that my bass is simply not suited to the music I make.
If I played jazz in an amplified context I'd be very, very happy, but I don't. I play in a post classical "alternative" group.

In a bid to get more arco punch from my bass this morning I was experimenting with string tension.

I've never been happy with the idea that you can test what you bass prefers tension wise, by raising or lowering the tuning by a semi tone as you are changing the pitch as well as the tension. an open f# will sound more bassy than an open G because it's fundamental pitch is lower. Regardless I went ahead with the test and didn't really find much difference other than in pizz I prefered the positive feel of the higher tuned string.

at the moment I use a relatively high string height. 9mm on the G to 14mm on the E. I wouldn't mind changing this to accomodate higher tension strings.

I currently use jargar G and D (medium) and superflexible A and E.
I love the feel and playability of this set up, but the sound does not deliver.

I want loads of punch and boom when playing pizz and a deep and powerful arco tone.
I'm not going to get that with my bass, but I'd like to get as close as I can.
I play arco 82.7% of the time

can anyone throw some pointers?

I've used spiro mediums and absolutely hate them. So too obligatos.

I need a string that delivers as much volume as possible as we ony play entirely acoustically

I'm looking at:

full set of Jargar fortes, although i know these will lack pizz punch.
flexocor 92s with Jargar forte E
Innovation 140B

I'm open to any suggestions.
I don't mind brightness in a string so long as the fundamental is very strong.
permanents?
Spiro stark E?

I have read hundreds of posts on the string forum, but I'd be very grateful if anyone could address my query directly.

Thanks
Thomas

[kwd]

Originally Posted by Thomas Stone

I'm looking at:

full set of Jargar fortes, although i know these will lack pizz punch.

Not necessarily. I found the Jargar fortes more than sufficient for pizz punch. The Jargar mediums were weak and not to my liking for pizz.

Originally Posted by Thomas Stone

Innovation 140B

I just put a set of Dominants on my bass (Dom G-D-A, Superflex E). I had 140Bs on the bass prior to that. It's kind of a dead heat for arco volume between those two sets. Dominants are the undisputed winner in pizz volume. It's more pronounced in the D and A strings.

I don't know what to tell you. The Superflex E is like a cannon on my bass.

[jallenbass]

I'm using Flexocor 92 Starks on my orchestra bass. Pretty dark and strong in fundamental. That bass is not long on sustain so pizz is fairly short but punchy. The tension is not as much as you would think. I do keep my strings sort of low (6,7,8,9 mm).

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by Thomas Stone

I'm looking at:

• full set of Jargar fortes, although i know these will lack pizz punch.
• flexocor 92s with Jargar forte E
• Innovation 140B

I'm open to any suggestions.
I don't mind brightness in a string so long as the fundamental is very strong.
permanents?
Spiro stark E?

Permanents are quite bright, in particular the G & D.
They have a strong fundamental though.

You could try Pirastro Chromcors.
Warmer than Permanents, quite stiff due to the solid steel core, and powerful too.
Pizz is quite percussive without much sustain.

Good luck!

[Thomas Stone]

Thanks all very much for your replies.

I may well go the route of a full set of Jargar fortes.

Although I've always had my eye on Dominants which might make sense as I think my bass and I may part company by the end of the year and I will try and acquire something more appropriate to what I play.

Tom

[mahlerbass]

It sounds like you would be a great candidate for Flexocors - THE strings for just about everything you described.

I just so happen to use Jargar fortes, because my newish (but quality) carved bass is quite loud and punchy, so it benefits from a soft and dark sounding, relatively lesser tension (compared to flexocore) string. It has great projection and "spread" now (not to be confused with volume), which are the qualities that I wanted most. I play in small chamber groups mainly, and the Flexocores sounded TOO loud and punchy on my bass. (I was evidently "wayyyy louder" then two cellists!) With the Jargars, I blend well with the other instruments. However, when I played in M.Y.S., the flexocores were absolutely fantastic, as it was a full orchestra (with a darn good timpani and tuba player), and only 5 basses (2 of which were plywood instruments!)

If you want that powerful dark orchestral sound, get the Flexocores, (medium gauge would be best) - they fit the "dark and powerful" criteria you provided "to a T". I'm not sure if the Jargars could do those things as well.

I should have mentioned that I play arco/pizz about 90/10, respectively. (The 10% is all orchestral pizz.) The jargars have way more pizz. sustain, compared to flexocores.

[TroyK]

You would know better that we would, of course, about your bass, but if you haven't had it to a good luthier, you might consider that.

If you describe to them what you describe to us, they may be able to make an adjustment to the soundpost or something that would change that characteristic of your bass.

Just a thought.

Troy

[Thomas Stone]

Thanks Troy, a good suggestion, but the sound post has been adjusted so many times its practically worn a hole through the top.

Mahler how do you find the flexocor E? I've been put off by the comments in various threads about how weak and floppy it is. I doubt I'll be able to get a heavy guage E easily in the UK.

I seem to recall that I have played on flexocors in the past on a bass borrowed from my teacher. I really liked the BOOM pizz.

So you would say flexo' have more arco power than the jargars? Excellent that is what I want

Thanks all again

[Francois Blais]

You might want to substitute the E with an Original Flexocor E, which is very thick and boomy, or, better, with a Chromcor E!
Dark and powerful, but with an interesting dark growl with pizz.
The Flexocor (and Original Flex) E simply doesn't have any sustain at all.

[mahlerbass]

Originally Posted by francois

You might want to substitute the E with an Original Flexocor E, which is very thick and boomy, or, better, with a Chromcor E!
Dark and powerful, but with an interesting dark growl with pizz.
The Flexocor (and Original Flex) E simply doesn't have any sustain at all.

+1

I did use the heavy gauge E when I had the flexocors. I know a couple bassists who do precisely what Francois just described, so I bet that its worth trying if you cant get a heavy E.

[JazzCat_88]

I am currently using Flexocores on my bass. I mostly play jazz and i find the sound warm with some reasonable amount of sustain. When I am practicing alone, the bass sounds fantastic. Big, boomy and warm. When I try the bow, it sounds very good. Dark and warm. However, when I play jazz with the band, faster tempos are okay but for ballads I just die off. There is string sustain but unamplified, you just can't hear it. I guess it is like gut strings? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Flexocores sound a bit like old school gut. Warm, dark and little sustain.

[Hector Wolff]

I have been playing Flexicore '92 mediums with a stark E (on a SB180 hybrid) for quite a while now in an orchestra, an intimate duo with singer, and (amplified) in a sixteen piece latin salsa band

It is certainly true that when played pizz they have little sustain, and that in slow ballads, it can be a problem.

However, I feel they do have a full, powerful, punchy tone which is great for uptempo numbers and for complex latin rythms. I love the strong percussive attack I can get with them, and with the Realist transducer I have on it, I can get lots of punch and a full warm tone, but without too much boom.

I can't speak to the volume relative to other strings, though. I can be heard acustically over an electric guitar and a female singer, just fine.