Debunking the Spiro Unbowability Myth

[bonaventura]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

See, I didn't want to derail an Evah thread too much with the Spiro thing, but since you all asked...

...I think the Spiro's reputation as a difficult string to bow is blown out of proportion. I did some aggressive jazz arco soloing last night on the Weichs, and they sounded great to me. There is a level of expression available that can be a lot of fun. I found that they like a little less bow pressure than the Evahs. It's really not the giant problem with arco that some people report.

I'm reminded by Marcus of something I've been meaning to ask you all. I don't know if there is a thread on this, but I've often wondered where in the heck this thing about Spiros being "unbowable" or "poor under the bow" or "not an arco string" came from. I know orchestra bassist who swear by Spiros and play the same set for years...

But almost every time someone mentions Spiros, somebody else just has to point out that they "don't bow well". Is that so? Jeez, Thomastik says it is an orchestra string suitable for bowing. The Weich G can be buzzy and twangy if it's too close to the FB, okay. So can other strings. But with enough height it's really not a problem even with Weichs. So what is the problem here? Is this just a prejudice or stupid rumor started by somebody on the internet? Is it an ill-deserved bad reputation or is there really something to it?

[dchan]

^ Nothing wrong with Spiros for bowing, really. It's just that there are other strings out there that are just better and easier to bow with.

[Eric Hochberg]

It seems that on darker sounding basses, the "scratch factor" spiros are known for does not show itself as much as those frequencies are suppressed. I use weichs on my darker sounding bass and they bow very well with a nice singing sound. My brighter bass always had the scratch going on with mittels and somewhat so with weichs. I think weichs may be a bit more bowable and I've heard that many orchestra bassists in Germany use the solos tuned down.

[dgelting]

Maybe the people who say that can't bow well in the first place?

[Uncletoad]

I'm with you I think they are fine under the bow.

Bertrand Turretsky. Spiro Orchestra user. Fantastic Tone.

They aren't as easy to get a great sound under the bow as Flexocor or Belcanto but the pizz more than makes up for that.

[Steve Killingsworth]

Originally Posted by Phileas Fogg

They aren't as easy to get a great sound under the bow as Flexocor or Belcanto . . .

For me that sums it up. I find it easier to get a "decent" (a very relative term) sound with the Evahs I have on at this time than the spirocores. Sound-wise, my less than stellar bowing doesn't yield as great a difference in tone.

[koricancowboy]

I think the problem with the bowability of Spiros is not as prevalent in say the style Bertram Turetzky plays in. Or in lyrical or jazzy bowed solos. The problem comes with things like the Scherzo from Beethoven 5 or the Opening to Don Juan or Mozart 40 etc. It seems to me that the defenders of Spirocore bowability seem to be very few strictly orchestral players and mostly Jazz, Improv or crossover players. I personally used Spirocores until I stopped practicing or playing jazz in favor of orchestral playing. I found that aggressive, fast and articulate was just more effort than it was worth with the spirocores of all grades. Especially the orchestral gauge. I guess that might be why the only orchestra player I have ever heard of playing them is Guastafeste. But he's a freak of nature. Most pro orchestral players I know who use old school strings tend to use either original flexicore or flat-chrome including german players. I don't think it has anything to do with Hal Robinson's bowing ability that he chooses permanents over Spiros. The other reason I think is even at 6 years or more they still sound like a cello up in tp. I think they're great solo strings though. Just my 2¢.

[Marcus Johnson]

Great post and great insights, koricancowboy. My viewpoint is very skewed in the direction of my position as a jazz bassist.... but I'm sure I'd look elsewhere if I was playing in orchestras regularly.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

I'm sure I'd look elsewhere if I was playing in orchestras regularly.

Me too.

[TroyK]

You know, I almost started this thread yesterday interestingly enough because I was thinking the same thing after last weekend. I avoided Spriocores for years, largely over this issue. I had solos tuned down a few years ago and thought that they bowed great. I've got weichs now and think that they bow great.

I dragged a bow across both Phil and Dwight's Mittels this year AND Phil's Stark E and they were all fine. I also had Pirastro Jazzers on for about a year and half and bowed fine with them too.

I will say that Helicore Orchestrals were really nice under the bow as were Flexicores and the Belcanto G I played with in Jake's shop, so I guess that I get someone prefering a different string, but honestly there is no reason to fear bowing a Spirocore. Especially if you're bowing for technical practice.

I will also add that while Spirocores are fine for arco, I actually suck something awful, so don't go thinking that I'm compensating for them or anything.

It's urban myth. I don't know where it started. I maintain that the string companies are owned by Big Pharm.

[dkziemann]

I use the Spiro S42 strings on my bass, and I study classical music at school- no scratch whatsoever, my teacher actually likes them a lot.

[kurt muroki]

I love Spirocore Strings... sure they are scratchy under the ear, but sound amazing in a big hall.

[Eli_Upright12]

I have found that on the german ply bass I use at school that the spirocores are just unbearable to bow. The start slowly, are nasally and just don't project the way that I like. This is a product of bass, bow, rosin, strings and other factors I'm sure, but it is real difficult to play on them. For pizz they lots of fun though.

Pascale Delache Feldman played Spiros when I studied with her. She sounds great!

[Jason Sypher]

I particularly dig the A and E.

[Mingus Fingus]

a good number of the baltimore symphony section uses (or used) spirocores. i was studying with david sheets over the summers a few years ago, and he stood behind them 100%. i believe at that point they were ALL (at least most) playing on them except for Arnold Gregorian (guts always).

jeff weisner used to tell me that spirocores would be the perfect orchestral string if they had been played on for about three years. he used to joke that he'd pay me to break them in, and then take them off my hands. the respond really quick, but the brightness isn't the most desirable sound for orchestral section work, i think.

i personally have a hard time bowing them, especially compared to evah's, when i play some of my students basses. given some time im sure i could adjust...i always seem to need to slow my bow down to get the fundamental to really speak.

adam.

[Marcus Johnson]

So there you have it, Bonaventura.... Spirocores are amazing, unbearable, fantastic, decent, scratchy arco strings that produce no scratch whatsoever.

[Andrew McGregor]

I played Spiro Weichs in orchestra for ages... they do scratch, yes, but that scratch is only really audible to the player, it doesn't carry.

That said, they're not a lot of fun to practice solo work with because of the scratch; you can't really tell what you're sounding like. It feels a bit nasty too.

Also... I think it's a bit of a myth that you want dark-sounding strings to play in orchestras. Yes, a bass section sounds dark from the auditorium... but that's a factor of the way the bass sound carries and the way the fundamental and low harmonics lock together in the section while the bright scratchy stuff doesn't. It's quite a convenience to have a bright sound, you can then hear what's going on with your bass... but nobody more than a couple of meters away will be able to pick you out of the section.

Still, I'm debating with myself what to put on when I re-audition. I've got Corelli mediums on there at the moment, and they sound great playing to myself, but I know they don't have the guts for section playing. More Weichs? Dunno, I kind of like the lack of scratch...

[ADissen]

this thread has inspired me to put on the Spirocore solo strings i received for christmas this year. Why did i buy Spirocore Solo's... im not quite sure. I didnt ask my teacher or the luthier i go to, but i just said i wanted them. go figure. now because of the cost to use ratio, i only got the solo A and E strings, so i figure the review maybe viewed as only half useful, but thats for you to decide.

Im using the strings for a concerto competition coming up and have them on a 7/8 Kolstein Fendt that is dark and loud. The A string i found to be exceptionally clear and focused under the bow. it did seem a little thin but hey, its a solo string. Now the E string is where things got a little semi-sketchy. The A had no problems with getting started but the E was a slightly different story. If i didnt bow exactly right the E gave me the adjective that has been used to describe these strings many a time, scratchy. but when the bow does find the right place it sings just as well as the A string. Also, Intonation is a real killer if you dont have your stuff down pat as these strings dont let you hide anything. which is a good thing

So, my experience with the Spirocore Solos has been pleasant and i expect that the strings will only get better as they settle (duh). Solo strings , i'd definitely give the Spiro's a look.

andrew

[Mudfuzz]

I never Had a problem bowing them but on my bass bowing them sounds very raw and grindy.