Dominant E String - BLAMMO

[MT Spaces]

Well it looks like the start of a long, stormy, love-hate relationship . Following some discussion between Superman and Uncle Toad, I recently posted this in the Dominants MegaThread:

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

.... I wasn't thrilled with the "flubby" SS A & E though so I went on the prowl. Based on what Papa Toad previously reported, I decided I wanted to try the Doms and bought new A & E strings from a fellow TalkBasser and put them on. They are synthetics (non-steel) and supposedly "gut-like." So far they sound good, more voice, stiffer (but low tension like Weichs), more front-end attack, definitely better than the SS. I haven't had them on very long (3 weeks) or played them enough yet. However, the E already seems to be what I was looking for. The A sounds kinda guitar-like played open but the closed low B and C are quite nice. Gotta give em more time I think.

I wanted to start a new thread to get some advice and so this wouldn't get buried in the MegaThread. Last night I was tugging the open A and E strings pretty hard on a fast bluegrass number .... song ends, we're talking about the next one ..... when BLAMMO, the E string breaks at the silk junction. Not twisting the tuner or nothin'. Damn .... I liked that E string .... just starting to sound better and better .... relatively low tension but a good stiff feel and sound for bluegrass pizz. I ain't giving up yet ... just need to skip the microbrews for a month to afford another one .

I had previously read all the Dom breakage threads .... made sure the grooves at bridge and nut were smooth and lubed with powdered graphite ... added 3 felt washers at the ball end to try and get the silk junction off the peg (but it still ended up fairly close) ..... brought the string up to tension slowly and smoothly.

OK here's where I could use some advice:

1) Is anyone from Thomastik lurking and listening? Is there somewhere I can send the string to so they can have a look at it? Have any positive changes in manufacturing been recently done. I got the new string from a TalkBasser still in its package a month ago. Lucky I only paid 1/2 price of new. I'm guessing it was purchased originally about 3 or 4 months ago. Package says "Bass Orchestra 3/4 E1 193 Medium". The package front is colored sienna / orange and says "New Packaging Classic Formula and Handmade Quality." Is there a newer revision and where on-line can I buy the "freshest" version?

2) Short of getting a different tailpiece to make the E string "longer" and get the silk junction farther away from the peg, what can I do? If I add even more felt or high-density rubber washers at the ball-end, will that change the sound?

Any help you can give is greatly appreciated. I will be continuing this stormy relationship for now and be buying another Dom E since it just seems like the right string for me and the bass (other than the not-so-minor breakage issue). Thanks.

[hdiddy]

I dunno, there were previous threads about Doms breaking and you should look there. Before, ThomastikMike would help us out and handle some of the string replacements. I had a D string? (I forget which) break and I never went back. Seems like the reason it broke wasn't obvious. I think I tensioned them once and it broke underneath the silk at the nut, just like your found. There wasn't anything that lead me to believe that it was a lack of graphite that caused the problem.

Wish I could be of more help. I think Thomastik will offer to replace it for free.

[Uncletoad]

Bummer.

Never broke an E.

Broke an A and a D after many off and ons.

I hate that about hybrid strings.

Email or call Thomastic and see if they'll replace it.

Exclusive U.S. Importer
John M. Connolly & Co. Inc.
Box 93, Northport, NY 11768
Toll Free 1-800-644 5268 E-Mail: info@connollyandco.com

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Bummer ..... Email or call Thomastic and see if they'll replace it.

Exclusive U.S. Importer
John M. Connolly & Co. Inc.
Box 93, Northport, NY 11768
Toll Free 1-800-644 5268 E-Mail: info@connollyandco.com

Thanks a bunch UT, I just sent them an e-mail .... I'll let you know the outcome when I see what happens. Crap, I'm already missing that Dom E ! Oh well, I guess I now get to try that Perm E you sold me .

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

Thanks a bunch UT, I just sent them an e-mail .... I'll let you know the outcome when I see what happens. Crap, I'm already missing that Dom E ! Oh well, I guess I now get to try that Perm E you sold me .

Not all the folks at Connolly are equally receptive and sympathetic. Contact Eliza Aldrich (elizaa@connollyandco.com). She's great!

[Thomguy]

hdiddy is right and I was the T-I lurker before Mike and can definitively say yes, we’ll replace the string for you: Eliza in customer support will be sending you an email shortly.

I’ve been away from the forums for some time as my role in the company has changed and time just does not permit so thanks for emailing, Bob, I miss it here. Here are some answers, hopefully they can help and if you need further assistance and I do not post here, please call me or Eliza at our toll free number: 1-800-644-5268 or email at info@connollyandco.com

1) As mentioned above, Eliza will be in touch and swap you good string for bad. There have been no changes in their manufacturing process although they have launched an excellent new set, more on that below. The package you described is the newest version and is the only thing T-I has changed; the language is now in English not German. There are many online dealers (listed below) but the shelf-life (sometimes even the playing-life!) of T-I strings is measured in years so the breakage is not a ‘freshness’ issue I assure you.

2) When the strings are at pitch on the bass, where is the silk on the peg-end? Is it right on or just barely clearing the nut? Does it wrap around the peg enough to where any steel is touching the peg? I ask because breakage can occur if there’s metal wrapped on the peg or if too much of the silk is on the nut. It seems you made sure all was correct since you have read the Dominant breakage thread but I thought I’d be sure.

You’ll be getting a new string but I have to ask: Have you tried the new Belcanto Bass strings? I ask as the feedback has been tremendous on these! They’re made with a specially-designed (Low-twist) steel rope-core. They respond very quickly under the bow and have excellent projection using moderate effort yet are soft on the fingers and have a dark, warm tone with great sustain. For Dominant or any T-I online/catalog, I suggest the following dealers:

www.juststrings.com (1-800-822-3953)
www.elderly.com (1-888-473-5810)
www.thedudepit.com
www.musiciansfriend.com (1-800-776-5173)
www.bassguitarstrings.us
www.t-istrings.com
www.bassemporium.com (1-800-445-5578)
www.mixedcompany.com
www.fqms.com
www.rfd.cc/bpstrings/
www.jhalemusic.com
www.highnotemusic.com
www.hairballmusic.com (1-800-994-0441)
New Age Strings 610-678-3057

I hope this helps and please call or email anytime.

My best,
Kevin Reynolds
Connolly & Co.
Exclusive US Importers of Thomastik-Infeld strings
1-800-644-5268

[drurb]

The folks at Connolly are, for the most part, real sweethearts! I had a Dom G break and the silk was not on the nut and no part of the steel was wrapped on the peg. From that point of view, the installation was ideal. Still, one day the G string just spontaneously gave way. It broke sometime during the night (I was sleeping, not playing). The break occurred within the silk-wrapped part. Eliza was extremely responsive and helpful and replaced it in a flash. I just couldn't ask for better customer service.

FWIW, while Belcantos bow like butter, they are, IMO, no match for the Doms for pizz.

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Thomguy

... Eliza will be in touch and swap you good string for bad. There have been no changes in their manufacturing process although they have launched an excellent new set, more on that below. The package you described is the newest version and is the only thing T-I has changed; the language is now in English not German. There are many online dealers (listed below) but the shelf-life (sometimes even the playing-life!) of T-I strings is measured in years so the breakage is not a ‘freshness’ issue I assure you ....

Wow ...... to say that Kevin and the fine folks at Connolly & Co. are top-notch and responsive would certainly be a gross understatement ! I honestly didn't expect such a quick and positive response .... I just wanted advice on how to work with the new Dom E string I was all set to purchase.

Originally Posted by Thomguy

... When the strings are at pitch on the bass, where is the silk on the peg-end? Is it right on or just barely clearing the nut? Does it wrap around the peg enough to where any steel is touching the peg? I ask because breakage can occur if there’s metal wrapped on the peg or if too much of the silk is on the nut. It seems you made sure all was correct since you have read the Dominant breakage thread but I thought I’d be sure...

Thanks for asking Kevin .... yeah I was kinda spooked about going with the Dominants (but still glad I did) and I perused most of the threads relating to the strings. The silk was mostly wrapped onto the peg and the silk-to-steel junction, to the best of my recollection, was about 3/8" to 1/2" below the peg (obviously can't measure now that it broke). I purposely added 3 felt washers to the ball-end to "lengthen" the string and keep the junction in a "neutral" location. Next time I think I will even add more washers. I will double and triple check the nut and bridge grooves and lube well before installing the new E. I promise I won't be coming to you for the next decade wanting free strings if another one breaks .

Originally Posted by Thomguy

....You’ll be getting a new string but I have to ask: Have you tried the new Belcanto Bass strings? I ask as the feedback has been tremendous on these! They’re made with a specially-designed (Low-twist) steel rope-core. They respond very quickly under the bow and have excellent projection using moderate effort yet are soft on the fingers and have a dark, warm tone with great sustain ...

No Kevin, I haven't tried the Belcantos even though I have been following some discussions. I'm sure they are great, as are all the Thomastiks. I have a Spirocore Mittel / Weich combo on my other bass and love that set-up for that bass. However, for my main pizz-only '40 Kay bluegrass special, the Dominant A & E strings are the ticket as far as I can tell. I have tried 4 different steel-based strings and one other synthetic (Super Silver) and nothing beats those Dominants on that bass. Heck, even if one breaks and I have to buy a new one every now and then, it is worth it to me. Somebody has to buy new Thomastik strings of some kind since the Spirocores never seem to wear out ... might as well be me . Sometimes the "problem child" turns out to be the best in the bunch over time.

Thank you so much for your concern and responsiveness.

[Uncletoad]

I didn't think of trying my Belcanto E/A on with the Gut tops.

I'll do that whenever I get the Gut tops and riport.

Oh yea, and how cool is that. I never bothered to complain about my broken strings.

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

... Oh yea, and how cool is that. I never bothered to complain about my broken strings.

Unca, what's up with that? Maybe you should do some retro-active grousin' ! Although, to my knowledge, no one at TalkBass has ever accused you of being a whiner. Who needs those Dom G & D strings anyhow when you got top-end guts on the way ?

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

Unca, what's up with that? Maybe you should do some retro-active grousin' ! Although, to my knowledge, no one at TalkBass has ever accused you of being a whiner. Who needs those Dom G & D strings anyhow when you got top-end guts on the way ?

Nah. I just assumed It's me. I'm hard on stuff. I expect those hybrid strings to break more often than spirocores.

The cost of doing business.

[kwd]

I was ready to order some Doms yesterday but decided against it after seeing this thread. I knew about the breakage problem and had got passed it, but seeing the "BLAMMO" made me apprehensive.

I played one of my teacher's basses with solo Doms tuned down last week and was impressed. I had decided on getting orchestra tension because I want the pizz volume. Now I'm reconsidering the solos. Is it safe to assume that the solo gauge strings tuned down will be less likely to break? I think Andy is the only person here who is using the solo gauge. Anyone else?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Nah. I just assumed It's me. I'm hard on stuff. I expect those hybrid strings to break more often than spirocores.

The cost of doing business.

Agreed. I pull harder than just about anyone else I know. I've only ever broken one string in my life. That's a pretty good percentage. I keep some old broken in spiros in the case as backups. The Dominants aren't all that scary, and for me are well worth the "risk".

[drurb]

My suggestion: Get the orchestra gauge. Better yet, get two sets for safety's sake. Then accept the bitter with the very sweet. There are reasons some of us are willing to put up with the breakage risk.

[MT Spaces]

O Happy Day !

I just received an e-mail from Eliza Aldrich at Connolly & Co. She is sending out a new Dom E string today. How sweet is that? Yesterday at this time I was bummin' ..... preparing to order a new string .... today I'm walkin' on the sunny side of life !

Kudos to Kevin and Eliza .... like I said earlier .... top notch and responsive. I'm gonna "baby" my new Dom E and talk nice to it.

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by kwd

I was ready to order some Doms yesterday but decided against it after seeing this thread. I knew about the breakage problem and had got passed it, but seeing the "BLAMMO" made me apprehensive ....

KWD, even though I play a completely different brand of music than you (i.e. bluegrass pizz ), I think you ought to give them a try. The Dominants are a very unique string with a physical "feel" and "voice" like no other string. Even though breakage has been a topic of discussion here and in the past, I'm willing to bet that the percentage of broken strings is quite small compared to the number of Dominants out there in the wide world. Just be aware of the installation guidelines and issues. Don't subject them to a lot of off-on / detune-retune cycles and you'll be fine. I'm still of the opinion that the feel and sound of the Dominants is well worth the risk of a possible but rare breakage. Heck, they aren't that expensive as strings go ..... not like a top-end gut or something. Go for it .

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

...Don't subject them to a lot of off-on / detune-retune cycles and you'll be fine.

In my case, one cycle is what seemed to do it.

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

I'm still of the opinion that the feel and sound of the Dominants is well worth the risk of a possible but rare breakage. Heck, they aren't that expensive as strings go ..... not like a top-end gut or something. Go for it .

+1! Still well worth the risk.

[kwd]

Thanks to Bob, Drurb and Chris for the replies. The order will be for ORCHESTRA gauge.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I pull harder than just about anyone else I know.

Oh yea. I challenge you to a duel!

Pitzometer challenge 2007.
Blues in F at 1/4=120 into an SPL meter at 10 paces.

Comon baby, are ya chicken.



.....just don't invite Fuqua.

[Jake deVilliers]

"Oh yea. I challenge you to a duel!"

Watch out there Phil, I've got a customer who breaks Spiro Mittels!

And no, there's nothing wrong with his bass, he just pulls a lot of string, especially when he's had a few.