Dominants megathread

[drurb]

Originally Posted by TroyK

EDIT: Have you thought about Lycons?

Argghh! Like a dagger through the heart!

I wish I could have them back.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

I have also tried most strings on the market, and I don't know that there really is another string like the Dominant. They never seem to choke up no matter how hard you play them. The fact that they can break always scares me from putting them on. Its not like replacing a string on an electric bass!

So, it's not just me! Those Doms are so hard to replace! The breakage issue is dangerous in another way. When a string breaks, a bunch of tension is rapidly lost on the carved top. Not good.

Thanks for the replies.

[Uncletoad]

I don't know that I was recommending Evahs as much as asking a question about having tried them. I have bought and sold two sets of Evahs now. I don't like them. Many love them.

Calivox assessment of Evahs is right on target with my experience on my two basses although Marcus in Hawaii feels very differently. He finds them a broad blank canvas.

I agree with others that the Dominant is it's own thing and has no other exact peer. I have less love for the synthetic core strings as I play though. I'm currently favoring Steel or Gut. Plastic isn't my favored tone generator. These days Gut is bothering me as well and I find myself gravitating to just steel strings.

That Flat Chromesteel G is a great string. Fantastic. It doesn't have the punch of the spirocore or the dominant but it sings like a bright version of the oliv G. Gorgeous like a Flexocor '92 under the bow but not as dark. I don't care for the rest of the set however.

If you can live with some sort of spirocores on the A/E then you are open to lots of stuff on top.

Some combos I've liked:

Spiro Mittel E/A Belcanto D/G
Spiro Mittel E/A Superflex D/G (or with Stark E)
Spiro Mittle E/A/D Belcanto G or Superflex G or Flat Chromesteel G. (or Stark E)
Spiro Stark E Mittel A/D Stark Flex 92 G
Spiro Stark E Mittel A Stark Flex 92 D/G

All steel, all have pluses and minuses. One thing I find telling in all the basses and strings I've messed with is what's on my three basses at this moment.

Alsatian Queen = Stark Spiro E, Mittel A/D/G
Cleveland Ply = Stark Spiro E, Mittel A/D/G
Joe German ply = Stark Spiro E, Mittel A, Stark Flexocor D/G.

What does that tell you?

Edit: I have a love/hate relationship with Spirocore G strings. I love the punch, the sustain, how they blend with other spiros, and how they cut pizz and arco but they get really buzzy even when dead and they don't sing like Pirastro strings do. By far the most substituted string on all my basses ever.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I don't know that I was recommending Evahs as much as asking a question about having tried them....

Thanks for taking the time to write all that valuable info. I feel like I'm about to get sucked down the string wormhole....

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by drurb

Thanks for taking the time to write all that valuable info. I feel like I'm about to get sucked down the string wormhole....

Yes you are.

I have a furnished room there.

Here is the antidote: Pizz = Spirocores, Arco = Flexocors.

[MR PC]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Some combos I've liked:

Spiro Mittel E/A Belcanto D/G
Spiro Mittel E/A Superflex D/G (or with Stark E)
Spiro Mittle E/A/D Belcanto G, Superflex G, Flat Chromesteel G. (or Stark E)
Spiro Stark E Mittel A Stark Flex 92 D/G

All steel, all have pluses and minuses. One thing I find telling in all the basses and strings I've messed with is what's on my three basses at this moment.

Alsatian Queen = Stark Spiro E, Mittel A/D/G
Cleveland Ply = Stark Spiro E, Mittel A/D/G
Joe German ply = Stark Spiro E, Mittel A, Stark Flexocor D/G.

What does that tell you?

Toad, are you using 3/4 or 4/4 sets? Aren't the tension specs different for those?

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by MR PC

Toad, are you using 3/4 or 4/4 sets? Aren't the tension specs different for those?

As far as I can tell they are 4/4 sets. The Stark Spiro only come in 4/4 sets.

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

Innovation 140H. Never had a problem with breakage on and off several basses. IMO they are better than Dominants. Basically the same feel, but even fuller and punchier than Dominants. They are great strings to bow on as well(if you are mainly playing Pizz, with a bit of arco thrown in).

I second this. These are the first strings popped into my head when I thought "like Dominants, but not Dominants."

But first: I've had trouble with Dominants breaking before, but once I made certain that the nut and bridge slots where nice and wide and lubricated and, even more importantly, that the metal part of the string did not come close to the tuning peg when tuned up to pitch, the breakage problems disappeared. Of course we always say this, and a reasonable response could be "well what the heck am I supposed to do if the metal part DOES get wrapped around peg? change my string length?" So it's not that simple; but there are solutions out there.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

So it's not that simple; but there are solutions out there.

Actually, I don't think there are user solutions at all. I've had Doms break when all manner of precautions were taken and when the metal part of the string was nowhere near the roller. My experience is not unique either. I know of quite a few such breakages. There is a fundamental problem with construction and a while back Thomastik even admitted that to dealers. Now, apparently, they're being quiet about it.

[TroyK]

As I touch more and more strings, I come to the conclusion that no matter how many strings are on the market, there are limited choices.

Steel, Gut and Synthetic.

I like the idea of synthetics the best and sometimes I like the sound the best, but can't live with the issues associated with using them. They are in theory, the best of both worlds (Steel and Gut), but in practice, I've not have good success with them.

I used to feel like gut was the ultimate tone on my favorite records, but didn't feel like I could live with them amplified in all situations, noisy bands, drummers, etc. Now, sometimes even on my favorite records with my favorite players I'm hearing a pitch instability that I didn't used to hear that I think would be a problem to me, not only in terms of getting the sound I want, but also getting the honest feedback I need from the bass to play in tune.

So, that leaves steel. I agree with Toad that Flexicores are lovely for arco and Spirocores for jazz, although, I think both cross over to the other side fairly well. There are plenty of other good strings both camps. I like Pirastro Jazzers a lot and what I've seen of orchestra Helicores and the one Belcanto that I touched told me those would be great orchestra strings too. Then there's all the hybrid steel strings like Permenants, Varicores, Helicore Hybrids, etc, etc, etc. I lived in that middle for a long time but ended up feeling like you're always making tradeoffs on both ends of the sound/experience measure.

So, I'm left with a relative few choices. At the moment, I'm using spirocores with the aforementioned FCS G string. I would prefer medium gauge just for feel, but my bass seems to sound better with lighter strings. And Jake gave me a really kick ass setup.

There are lots of other things I've liked, but they all had drawbacks. I have a few other ideas in my mind now, but it's an abyss to start fooling around and as my pal Neiche says "When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares into you."

I've never tried Dominants, because I just can't afford to like them and not be able to live with them, which is what I would expect to happen. I will say that there is nothing twangy about my bass with the current setup. Maybe Jake will chime in why that is.

[drurb]

Well, I had a set of Evah Pirazzi's put on my bass today. I was quite impressed with them right off the bat. Yes, they are dark sounding but I tend to prefer that. They sure have a powerful sound. I'll have to live with them a while to know if they're right for me. So far, so good! The Evahs have one characteristic that beats the Dominants-- they probably won't break!

[drurb]

A verdict is in!

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

But first: I've had trouble with Dominants breaking before, but once I made certain that the nut and bridge slots where nice and wide and lubricated and, even more importantly, that the metal part of the string did not come close to the tuning peg when tuned up to pitch, the breakage problems disappeared. Of course we always say this, and a reasonable response could be "well what the heck am I supposed to do if the metal part DOES get wrapped around peg? change my string length?" So it's not that simple; but there are solutions out there.

I've just had two dominant G's break on my office bass in the last week, and both were wound so that the metal of the string was around the metal of the peg. On my gigging bass, the tuning pegs are arranged so that the E string is the closest to the nut - and a Dominant E was the only string I've broken on that bass. I replaced it with a spiro stark, which is a better e string anyway, and have had no other breakages since.

But on the office bass - the Lascala ply - the G is the closest peg to the nut, and I'm kind of annoyed by this, because I'd like to continue to use the Dominants with the stark E. I'm guessing that the reason the Doms break has little to do with actual metal to metal contact and more to do with the "viable" part of the string not liking to be wrapped in a circle that tight, correct?

Looks like the only solution is to swap the strings so that the G goes to the E tuner and vice versa, but that seems kind of silly, and the holes in the pegs are in the wrong place besides. I wonder why they (Arnold and Will) changed the design? I was wondering whether the tuning pegs could be swapped if I had single tuners instead of plates, but it looks like the pegs are pretty angled.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Looks like the only solution is to swap the strings so that the G goes to the E tuner and vice versa, but that seems kind of silly, and the holes in the pegs are in the wrong place besides. I wonder why they (Arnold and Will) changed the design? I was wondering whether the tuning pegs could be swapped if I had single tuners instead of plates, but it looks like the pegs are pretty angled.

The Pegs were changed in response to the opposite problem usually being more common. The E string is generally to tight a wrap when it's so close to the pegbox. It is common for old style placement pegs (like your hybrid) E and A strings to be swapped with each other so the E speaks better with not quite so much tension from the breakover across the nut. It's also a PITA when having an extension. My Cleveland is arranged this new way while my old bass is set the traditional way with the E string closest. It doesn't make much difference either way to me.

You could perhaps find a method of cheating the G string on the TP side so it buys you back some end on the pegbox side. Is there a small amount of room needed where you could cheat a half cm or so? I've used dead EB string ball ends slid over strings to cheat back strings in EB bridges where they were to close. Slide 2 or 3 over and the thing sits .5cm further away from the pegbox.

[Marc Piane]

I have Doms on my B bass. I just shortened the tailpiece gut until none of the steel wrapped on the tuners.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I've just had two dominant G's break on my office bass in the last week, and both were wound so that the metal of the string was around the metal of the peg. On my gigging bass, the tuning pegs are arranged so that the E string is the closest to the nut - and a Dominant E was the only string I've broken on that bass. I replaced it with a spiro stark, which is a better e string anyway, and have had no other breakages since.

But on the office bass - the Lascala ply - the G is the closest peg to the nut, and I'm kind of annoyed by this, because I'd like to continue to use the Dominants with the stark E. I'm guessing that the reason the Doms break has little to do with actual metal to metal contact and more to do with the "viable" part of the string not liking to be wrapped in a circle that tight, correct?

Chris--

I've now had enough experience with the Doms so that I can say with confidence that those G strings break whether the metal is wrapped around the peg or not. Just this AM, I mailed my defective G (the one that did not break all the way but that produced a loud snap and dropped in pitch) to Eliza at Connolly. She had sent me a brand new Dom G to replace it. She's been very gracious about replacing every one of my broken Dom Gs. I figure it can only help the cause if we keep letting them know that this is a problem.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by fingers

I have Doms on my B bass. I just shortened the tailpiece gut until none of the steel wrapped on the tuners.

I just wouldn't be willing to do that even if it did solve the problem.

[Marc Piane]

There is a string shop in Chicago that doesn't even carry them anymore because they got tired of dealing with the breakage complaints.

Truth be told I tried Durrl's (and his other brother) setup (Doms with a Stark E) for a few weeks and while I really liked the feel I never could quite get the tone I wanted. I felt like they were loud but lacked some of the girth that I get from my ancient Spiros. I put back on the used Spiros I bought from Brain Glassman over a year ago and am loving every minute. They are probably close to 2 years old by now. For me nothing can hold a candle to well broken-in Spiros.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by drurb

I just wouldn't be willing to do that even if it did solve the problem.

Why?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by fingers

I have Doms on my B bass. I just shortened the tailpiece gut until none of the steel wrapped on the tuners.

Originally Posted by drurb

I just wouldn't be willing to do that even if it did solve the problem.

Originally Posted by fingers

Why?

For a number of reasons. Okay, I'm not a big believer in the after-length making a huge difference in the overall tone. Still, luthiers know some good rules of thumb that I suspect optimize the overall sound. Second, changing the tailpiece gut length does change the break-angle over the bridge. That could have an effect as well. The point is that I just wouldn't mess with the setup of my bass in order to accommodate what, IMO, is an inappropriately problematic string construction. Anyway, as I mentioned above, not winding the metal part of the G on the tuning peg does not, in my experience, eliminate the problem. So, whether or not I'd change the tail-gut length even if it solved the problem becomes academic because, well, it just doesn't solve the problem.

I realize that it's all a trade-off. I LOVE Dominants (when they're intact ). I just had enough of being concerned about what might happen at a gig or practice-session. It wasn't just an idle worry-- I actually had my share of breakages. It was a very difficult divorce but Evah has been treating me very well so far.