Dumb Spirocore Question of the Week

[relacey]

Does anyone know if the only difference in a Spirocore 3885 string and a S42 string at the same tension rating (i.e. weich or mittel) is the length? In other words, are they the same string except the S42 is a little longer?

[Dr. Jake]

I've been pondering the same question, so let me try another cut at it. If the S42 is (as Thomastik's catalog claims) designed for a 110cm or 43in string length on the instrument, why do so many people use the S42 Spiro on 3/4 size basses? If the vibrating length of the string is the same, nut to tailpiece, can the length wrapped around the peg make any difference to the sound or feel?

Someone really needs to write a book on double bass strings. I'd do it, but my doctorate is in political science...

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by relacey

Does anyone know if the only difference in a Spirocore 3885 string and a S42 string at the same tension rating (i.e. weich or mittel) is the length? In other words, are they the same string except the S42 is a little longer?

You can call or write to Thomastik and ask. I've found them very forthcoming.

[TroyK]

I think the answer or opinions that I've read before are that you can use either string on a 3/4 bass and certainly people do. The thought is that using the Mittel made for a longer mensure will actually result is slightly lower tension on a standard one. Don't have personal experience to draw from for that, though.

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by TroyK

I think the answer or opinions that I've read before are that you can use either string on a 3/4 bass and certainly people do. The thought is that using the Mittel made for a longer mensure will actually result is slightly lower tension on a standard one. Don't have personal experience to draw from for that, though.

I've tried both and that is exactly what I experienced.

mark

[adje]

I wonder if this is related ...

In the EUB threads people have maintained that for the Ned Steinberger basses, which are 3/4 scale, you need 4/4 Spirocore - all other 3/4 strings will fit, but Spiros are somehow too short.

[TroyK]

No, it sounds like that is for a different reason.

[zeytoun]

Originally Posted by calivox

I've tried both and that is exactly what I experienced.

mark

You can also do a thought experiment to prove it. Imagine you have a bass with a 43" mensure and the strings are tuned. If you were to magically shorten the mensure without changing string tension, the pitch would go up. So you would have to lesson the tension (tune it down) in order to get it back to the same pitch.

[Mark Perna]

Spoken like a true physicist.

mark

[riimodar]

I use Spirocores mittel 4/4 (set No. S42) on both my basses, which have a little different string length: 107.5cm (42.3") and 105cm (41.3"). On the shorter bass, they are too loose to my taste, therefore I was wondering whether 3/4 Spirocores (set No. 3885) would be more tight. I asked Thomastik, their answer follows:

Dear Polivka Rodomir

The different is not only the legth it is the construktion inside the string, different combinatins from the winding wire.

Best regards

Heinz Kovacs
Research & Development
Thomastik-Infeld-Vienna
Diehlgasse 27POB 26
A-1051 Vienna.Austria
fon+43-1-545 12 62
fax+43-1-545 30 42
www.thomastik-infeld.com
kovacs@thomastik-infeld.com

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Polivka, Radomir - Acision [mailto:Radomir.Polivka@acision.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Jänner 2009 11:09
An: Kovacs Heinz
Betreff: the difference between Spirocore 3/4 and 4/4

Dear Sir,

May I ask you to clarify one question which is quite often discussed among double-bassists but no-one seems to know the exact answer.

What is the difference (in terms of technical parameters) between Double bass Spirocore 3/4 (set no. 3885) and 4/4 (set no. S42)? Do they differ only in length, or do they differ also in string mass per meter? I expect the 3/4 version has higher mass per meter to achieve the same tension with the shorter string length, but this is just my assumption.

Your clarification will be really appreciated by me and all my colleagues.

Thank you
Radomir Polivka
Prague, Czech Republic

I was hopping for more detailed information, they only confirmed there IS a construction difference. Anyway I interpret it as an indirect indication that 3/4 has greater mass per meter and therefore has higher tension on the same bass, compared to 4/4.

[dkziemann]

Originally Posted by Dr. Jake

I've been pondering the same question, so let me try another cut at it. If the S42 is (as Thomastik's catalog claims) designed for a 110cm or 43in string length on the instrument, why do so many people use the S42 Spiro on 3/4 size basses? If the vibrating length of the string is the same, nut to tailpiece, can the length wrapped around the peg make any difference to the sound or feel?

Someone really needs to write a book on double bass strings. I'd do it, but my doctorate is in political science...

For jazz at least, the longer string on a 3/4 size bass provides more of that growl sound and sustain that guys like Ray Brown were made famous for.

[akmusicfreak]

I switched from Mits to Weichs on my bass and I'm finding my G string to sound not as "pleasant" to my ears and the A string is not as meaty and full of harmonics and less fundamental than with the Mits. So hear are questions.

Is this common?
Do these strings sound much different when they break in?

I like the tension/feel of the Weichs but so far they don't sound as nice as the Mittles.

Should I break these in more or just change them now?

Thanks for listening to my stupid Spyro qustion of the week.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by akmusicfreak

I switched from Mits to Weichs on my bass and I'm finding my G string to sound not as "pleasant" to my ears and the A string is not as meaty and full of harmonics and less fundamental than with the Mits. So hear are questions.

1.Is this common?
2.Do these strings sound much different when they break in?

I like the tension/feel of the Weichs but so far they don't sound as nice as the Mittles.

3.Should I break these in more or just change them now?

Thanks for listening to my stupid Spyro qustion of the week.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes, leave them on for 6 months.

Having said all that, I prefer Mittel. Ymmv...

[akmusicfreak]

Thanks for the reply Uncletoad.
I guess I'll be pondering changing these string back to Mittles for a little while.

[akmusicfreak]

Originally Posted by akmusicfreak

Thanks for the reply Uncletoad.
I guess I'll be pondering changing these string back to Mittles for a little while.

OK, after just a few days of playing on these strings the G is starting to sound better, and the A not showing much inprovement but some.
I'll leave them on for a while.
The string tensions these have are so fun, I find I'm practicing almost twice as long per session as before.

Yeah Spiros.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by akmusicfreak

OK, after just a few days of playing on these strings the G is starting to sound better, and the A not showing much inprovement but some.
I'll leave them on for a while.

Yes. 6 months at least.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

3. Yes, leave them on for 6 months.

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Yes.6 months at least.

IMO.....maybe 6 months.

Is there a god damn echo in here? Sheesh.