Eudoxa Vs. Kaplan - purely arco strings.

[Herbie 80's]

Hey folks,

So, I've been a full-set Eudoxa player for near 3 years now, and lately I've been feeling the temptation to change. I only play classical music.

During my 3 year Eudoxa phase, I also went through a gamut mixture too, with a gut D and G on top. That didn't work for me, but I thought I'd give it a whirl. Anyways, in between the 3 year phase, the strings unwound and Pirastro sent me replacements. After this odd summer in Quebec, the G string is unwinding, and I'm giving up on the Eudoxas.

I saw Basscausality's review of the Kaplan strings and really wanted to try them. Does anyone think that they'll serve as a good replacement for the Eudoxas? I don't want the same tone, and I sometimes feel like the Eudoxas don't respond fast enough.

If there are any other arco-only strings that are on the market, what do you guys think of them? I have only really played Evahs, Eudoxas, and gamut gut strings.

[DC Bass]

Hey Herbie,

Sorry to hear about the trouble you've been having with the Eudoxas- I used to LOVE them, but I haven't used them in many years! I thought they were the best sounding and playing arco string I had ever tried, but I could not live with them falling apart- the tuning instability was no fun either.

Also, I must point out that while I have a few Kaplan strings waiting for trial, I have not put them on my bass yet...

That said, I will throw a few more options your way:

1- Pirastro Flexocor- the so called "Flexocor 92's" with the ruby red silks. These are on my bass now and I am really pleased with them in every regard. My "new favorite" for classical section work. Beautiful dark, rich tone with a really addictive "sizzle". Despite their darkness they are not at all muddy- very clear sounding in all registers. They start quickly and have a great dynamic range.

2- Pirastro Permanent- very compelling string imho. Bright but not harsh, and they still have a nice tight, clear bottom end. These also start very quicky arco.

3- Pirastro Flexocor Deluxe- another string that is well reviewed here- I am sitting on a set awaiting trial, so no personal insight at this time. (Hey Pirastro, why another "Flexocor" string? )

4- Thomastik Belcanto- People go crazy over these strings- I like them just fine, but think that Flexocor 92's CRUSH them in every catagory (on my bass). They are supposed to be similar to the Kaplans, or the Kaplans are similar to them...I'll be able to offer more after I try the Kaps on my bass- I used Bels for two or three years or so.

The biggest thing that you have to remember is that any steel string is going to have more tension, and your bass will very likely behave quite differently under that tension. Give yourself and your bass plenty of time to acclimate to a steel core set.

FWIW- The Gamut's you tried, were they Lyon or Pistoy? Pistoy are much more arco friendly! Plain gut require a very different bow stroke too...I'm sure you know that though.

I look forward to the input on this topic from other members!

Best of luck in the "new string" search!

Joe

[Herbie 80's]

Hey DC Bass,

Thanks for your input! I know I talked to you about my love of Eudoxa's before, but they just can't handle the Quebec climate. They're made for Europe, and the climate here is just too jumpy.

For some reason with the Eudoxa's I struggle so much with getting a clean start on the bow. I've never really fought this much with getting a clean bow sound, and I seem to only run into this problem with my bass, but it has become so annoying. I've never been certain whether it is the strings or not, but only in the last month I have really started to notice the issue, and I feel like this might be because of the weather fluctuations here in Quebec.

I have tried the Belcantos before and I really dislike them. The G string is so tiny that it's like a piece of thread. I hate that.

The gamuts I used were actually Lyons. I loved them, and I had no issue with bowing them, they were just so much work. It felt like practicing on them took extra amounts of time because I had to figure out how they work. It was like for every single piece (or even movement!) I had to learn how the string would react, and I just don't have time for that.

This upcoming year I'm also doing a recital, and while I planned it to be all baroque, I've changed my mind and decided to do a baroque and contemporary/ modern recital, for several reasons. With this in mind, I need a string that will be good for a first chair position, but also a string that will be good for solo music. The Kaplans from Basscausality's review really struck me as the first steel string I'd really like, but there are so many options I don't know about.

EDIT: I thought I'd also mention that I normally play with very light bow pressure. I know that some steel strings require high bow pressure (I think? - I really know nothing about steel strings).

[DC Bass]

Compared to gut, yes, steel does require more bow pressure, but it's more of a natural arm weight- not direct pressure like you're digging in- that's my take anyway. FWIW- I notice the gut vs steel differences to be most pronounced with plain gut- and most of the flat wound gut strings like Oliv and Eudoxa to be quite similar to steel with regards their feel under the bow.

I find it curious that the Eudoxa's don't start cleanly for you...that was one of their most appealing characteristics to me, on my bass of course. I remember them starting quickly and easily; and man, that TONE!

It's kinda funny- I didn't think that the Belcanto strings were all that clean and quick starting- again, on my bass. For me, Flexocor 92's almost start themselves! lol!

Without having tried them myself (yet), I would encourage you to give the Kaplans a go...you'll never REALLY know til you do!

Joe

[DC Bass]

Here is a string comparison chart from Pirastro:

http://www.pirastro.com/pdf/Pirastro...gInfo_2011.pdf

I'm not 100% sure I agree with all of the data- for example, they cite Oliv as requiring high tension under the bow- sure, they want more tension than plain gut, but not more than Eudoxa...as I recall anyway.

They do say that Flexocor is very arco friendly though, and I definitely agree with that!

The chart also reminded me of their Passione line...man, that is a sweet string!

Ugh! Some times having too many choices can be maddening!
I don't envy you right now, the string search can turn into a sickness! You find yourself wondering "what if" this string or that string...this gauge or that brand...all the while the bank account growing smaller, and the string drawer becoming more and more full!

Best of luck bro!

Joe

PS- I hear you on the concerns of climate and Eudoxa! DC was built on a swamp!!! They are no fun here either! lol!

[rjspear]

I've got a set of Sensicores on a Shen five-string bass. They've got an artificial core material, and I really like them. They are very soft under the fingers, pick up easily from the bow, and are comfortable to play for long periods of time. My bass does not like steel strings, although it tolerates them pretty well. The low B is a bit heavy, but that's something I've noticed on many strings of this type. The Sensicores were good from the moment I put them on, and were even better after I added height adjusters to the bridge.

[Herbie 80's]

I think the Passiones, Kaplans, and Flexocors are the most tempting strings right now. This need to change strings came at such a bad time too, because I also need to get a new bridge cut! Everything is madness right now.

I'm a bit nervous about changing to steel strings, since I'm so use to the Eudoxas. It just makes me frustrated that they fall apart during the summer, and they became so hard to start cleanly because of that.

[DC Bass]

Check this out: http://jordankirkness.tripod.com/dbstringtension.html

This chart shows the Flexocor as not having too much more tension than the Eudoxa! I was rather surprised at that! The Flexocor A string is about 8lbs heavier, but everything else is danged close!

As for the bridge situation, that is a bit of a bother! Sorry about that!

Joe

[Herbie 80's]

I spent yesterday playing on the school bass which has Obligatos on them. Needless to say, I was a bit impressed by the string, but it's definitely not for me.

I practiced this morning, and then played a bit for my best friend in the afternoon, and when I came back to my bass in the evening, the G string was mostly gone. The winding at the start of the C going to the D on the is unwound and it stops my finger from going over it.

I just finished ordering a light Kaplan set from Gollihur Music (all hail!), and I guess I'll be playing on obligatos for the next two weeks or so.

(But now I get to sell my two used Eudoxa sets for rad cheap and make a few dollars!)

[dfp]

i've tried Eudoxas (G & D recently) and most recently the full set of Kaplan mediums. i found the Eudoxas to be finicky w/ my bowing, w/ squeaks and scratchy sounds more often than i got w/ many other types of strings. also, something about the Eudoxas brought out a bad wolf at octave B flat on the G string, but it's not there w/ other strings.

the medium Kaplans for me have been bowing so much easier than the Eudoxas. I also like that they're made in the USA, and not too pricey currently. let us know what you think of the Kaplan lights.

[Herbie 80's]

Hey Guys,

A lot has happened since the last time I posted in this thread!

I had a new bridge cut and put Kaplans on the bass, and I LOVE them. They are amazing strings!

However, while I was at the luthiers, I was playing his basses while he was cutting the new bridge. I fell in love with one of the basses, and I decided to buy it! So, I trialed it for a week and it had Obligato solos on them. I hate those strings; they're so terrible. The bass I bought is replacing the one I just had a bridge cut for, and the person who is buying the bass is playing mostly jazz on the Kaplans. He says that he really likes them and that they are a 'dirty' string.

Anywho, I have a set of Passiones on their way for the new bass, and they're replacing the terrible Obligato solos. I'm really excited! I was surprised that I liked the bass so much when the strings were so bad.

I don't have any $$$ to replace the Passiones if I don't like them, so I hope I do. I read the summary on Pirastro's website, and they seem to be very good strings. We'll see what happens.

[DC Bass]

Wow! Congratulations on your new bass! I hope she serves you well!

As for strings- too bad you had to let the Kaplans go with your old bass. That sucks! I played the Passiones on a bass the last time I was at the luthier- I thought they were a really nice string! The sound was sweet- very warm and rich. They were dark, but not at all muddy, and they played like a dream. They start quick and easy, and sound smooth as silk. My only issue is that I thought they were a bit quiet but that very well could have been the bass they were on- other folks here have reported them being fine in the volume department.

FWIW- In the unlikely event that you find the Passiones unusable, you can prolly sell them here on TB- and then you can keep your eyes peeled for used Kaplans!

Joe

[AMJBASS]

Uh, no picture = no new bass

Congratulations though. Its always a trip getting a new bass!

[DC Bass]

Originally Posted by AMJBASS

Uh, no picture = no new bass

According to the rules of the interwebs, he is correct!

Pics please!

Joe

[Herbie 80's]

Haha,

When I pick the bass up on Thursday or so, I'll post a thread on the Basses section of the new bass. I was really, really surprised at what I chose..

That reminds me! I need to email Jake Devilliers for a tailpiece..

[sanray]

I just replaced my passiones with Kaplans i like them both. The kaplans have a nicer solo sound on the upper register. But both sounded great on my bass good luck on your bass.

[foilracer]

Herbie...how about an update? Passiones or Kaplans ...OR ? ........tailpiece?

Thanks in advance!

[Adam Maloney]

For me, the passiones were definitely darker and more "chocolatey" and the kaplans had a more soloistic tone, but both blend incredibly well. The kaplans have a much more direct, focussed sound. Given the choice however, I honestly couldn't pick a favorite. As long as your using it or orchestral playing, I don't think anyone could be disappointed by either string.

P.S. I play a lot of jazz gigs, and these both suck equally!

[Herbie 80's]

Oh, haha, I forgot about this thread!

Well, since I've had the new bass, it's won me a couple of new jobs, and has really greatly influenced my playing.

When I brought it home from the luthiers, it had a solo A, D, G obligato, and normal E obligato. Needless to say, I really hate Obis, but I still bought the bass because I loved it.

I then changed the strings to Passiones (I believe I actually got them from Adam!), and I liked them, but they weren't 'it'. So, alas, on my previous bass I used Kaplans, and I liked them a lot. So, I bought a set of Kaplans and went to town. They've been on since September or so, and have been playing very well.

They are fairly loud, and have great tone, but I find that they take a lot of work as well. Finding the perfect way to make them speak is a bit hard (at least to me), and perhaps they're a bit 'loose' on my bass.

I also changed the heavy tailpiece to a lightweight tailpiece (keep in mind, my bass is a big 7/8). It greatly improved the pizz sound, but it decreased the response in arco, and since I'm a classical player I took the lightweight tailpiece off.

One thing that I'm starting to find with the Kaplans is that the orchestra pizz is fairly quiet (especially on the E string). This bugs me quite a bit because I'm usually playing first chair, and it needs to be heard. That being said, when it is just me and a string orchestra, they 'blossom' very well.

A few weeks ago, I tried a Spirocore low B (tuned to a C) to try scordatura (for the hell of it). It was great, but the low C string without an extension was too much work for little benefit. However, what I did learn is that my bass likes phat strings and high tension. So, since I tried the spirocore string, I've been PMing back and forth with bejoyous (who introduced me to my first teacher years ago!) since he uses spirocores and playing classical like me.

Now, the next move is to get a set of Spirocore mittels installed with maybe a stark E, but that is way in the future as I want to install my mechanical extension first.

Here is a picture of two trumpeters and I when I was on tour in Quebec City:



And another when I got hired to play with a film orchestra:

[DC Bass]

Congratulations on the good fortune you have been experiencing of late!

Please consider sharing some of your discussions and experiences regarding Spiro's for classical work- I think a lot of people would appreciate it and find it very enlightening.

Joe