Eudoxas + amp

[brianh]

I'm on my last leg with the Eudoxa's I've been using. I LOVE the accoustic sound, both arco and pizz, and in fact I rarely use amps on gigs these days. The playability of the strings is decent, although they are a bit slow in response. There are some intonation problems as everyone knows, but these can be delt with on the gig.It is annoying though and I can't imagine what humid summer would be like...

However the real problem is that I can't seem to get a good amplified tone when I need one (25% of my gigs). It's muddy and just doesn't speak clearly through the amp...unless I tweak the EQ and make it sound like a 70's Woody Shaw record. I can't really hear the pitch and that mixed with the strings falling in and out of tune drives me crazy.

Using a mic is for me, probably not an option. I'm not really playing big jazz clubs; mostly small private events in WEIRD rooms, and occasional gigs in tiny jazz clubs where nothing sounds good. Maybe once a month I will be in a situation where I could use a mic...so it's just not practical for me.

So, I guess I'm just checking to see if anyone has some insight on this situation...before I take the strings off and try some Evah Pirazzi's. In any event, I'm using a Full Circle, Eden Head, and Epifani 1x12.

Thanks

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by brianh

I'm on my last leg with the Eudoxa's I've been using. I LOVE the accoustic sound, both arco and pizz, and in fact I rarely use amps on gigs these days. The playability of the strings is decent, although they are a bit slow in response. There are some intonation problems as everyone knows, but these can be delt with on the gig.It is annoying though and I can't imagine what humid summer would be like...

However the real problem is that I can't seem to get a good amplified tone when I need one (25% of my gigs). It's muddy and just doesn't speak clearly through the amp...unless I tweak the EQ and make it sound like a 70's Woody Shaw record. I can't really hear the pitch and that mixed with the strings falling in and out of tune drives me crazy.

Using a mic is for me, probably not an option. I'm not really playing big jazz clubs; mostly small private events in WEIRD rooms, and occasional gigs in tiny jazz clubs where nothing sounds good. Maybe once a month I will be in a situation where I could use a mic...so it's just not practical for me.

So, I guess I'm just checking to see if anyone has some insight on this situation...before I take the strings off and try some Evah Pirazzi's. In any event, I'm using a Full Circle, Eden Head, and Epifani 1x12.

Thanks

I had the same problem with the Evahs that you're having now. They sounded great acoustically but not so good through the amp. I took 'em off and went back to Dominants.

mark

[Aaron Cohn]

I had different experiences amping the Eudoxas on two different basses. My old bass was darker and not all that live sounding--maybe even a little contained in sound. I never had a problem getting a usable tone from Eudoxas through an Underwood on that bass. In fact, I recently ran across a track that was recorded direct to the board from the Underwood and the sound surprisingly wasn't all that bad.

My current bass is brighter and more of a cannon. Using the same setup resulted in a bit of the "Woody Shaw record" tone you mentioned. Enough so that a drummer once asked me on the gig, "Have you considered trying the Realist?" I got good results miking this bass with the Eudoxas though.

You might consider seeing if anyone you know has old pickups lying around you can try. The Full Circle is by all accounts a good pickup but it's possible it's just not the right match with your bass and the Eudoxas.

You could also try getting an impedance-matching 1/4"-XLR adapter and give a mic a try through your amp. Maybe not the most hi-fi approach but it might work well enough.

[brianh]

My bass is probably more like the second one you described. It's not dark really; more bright and open sounding. It is a really nice instrument and extremely loud and full sounding. However, it does lack some of the focus and contained overtones that you see in some really top quality Itallian/English basses. It still is probably though one of the nicer basses around under 30k though.

I've been finding that (at least in my living room), cutting the upper-lows drastically, as well as the upper-mids, while maybe very slightly boosting the lower-highs gives me a sound I can use. Since I am mainly having a problem with it being boomy, I have found that also cutting the ultra-low frequencies brings clarity and especially eliminates the rumble I get on an open E (maybe a Spirocore E would work better anyways...). However, this removes the warmth and many overtones from the sound and it becomes brittle and sterile, so I'm reluctant to do this.

All of this is of course is judged by standing about 15 feet from the amp. It sounds thuddy and dark next to the amp. I think a big thing for me will be not standing too close or directly in front of the amp, because I think the sound of the amp can affect the resonance of the instrument.

I hope it works with a band on the gig!

[Marc Piane]

Rise ancient thread. RISE!!!

Funny, I'm going through the same thing.

I searched this topic to see if there were other that felt this way and... well I'm not alone.

The acoustic tone is AWESOME.

The tone I got with my little GK when I don't have to be that loud is good.

I picked up a Clarus for a gig where I have to be pretty loud and I've noticed a serious difference between the amplified tone of the Spiros I have on the bottom and the amp'd tone of the Eudoxas. I'm not sure what to do. This loudish gig is a weekly gig so I might need to switch.

I love the acoustic tone and feel of the Eudoxas but they are not cutting it through a loud amp.

I have a set of Animas. How do those amplify?

Or the fallback is Dominants. I know those are fine with an amp.

[brianh]

Hey Marc,

The whole string issue is so incredibly annoying...It's lose-lose situation and an epic waste of money all around. I'm obsviously a bit dark about it...

I've currently got an entire set of Eudoxas (which fortunately I got for free) on my bass and it's actually the third time I've experimented with the strings. I LOVE the acoustic tone (although sometimes it is a bit too dark and dull...especially down low) and the acro response is great. It's an incredibly versatile string and has maybe the best fundamental out there. It just sounds like a bass should...

The amp thing is a nightmare (although it is a bit easier with a Full Circle IMO) and I really can't find a way around it. Frankly they just don't amplify well. Gigs without an amp can be great and if you play with higher action and pull hard like I do, you really don't need one too often (also in NYC, it's also an issue of wanting to fight the Subway with one...).

However, there are other negatives with the strings as well. During the winter they are relatively stable in pitch...but during the summer it's a big problem (or even right now as spring nears and the humidity is changing). Also, even after several months with the strings I still find it a bit of an issue to play really fast lines. It's not a tension or thickness issue...the strings just don't respond consistently.

Do you have these issues as well?

I am a long-time Dominant user, and I generally like those strings. However, I'm not sure if I'll use them again because the also are a bit of a pain to deal with and they tend to lose a bit of tone and volume over time. They bow ok, but not great.

Honnestly, I'm really thinking of just going back to Spirocore Orchestra strings (Weichs are a bit too thin for me I think). I'm sort of kicking myself for messing around the issue so much becuase there are SO many great players who use Spiros it should be obvious. Rodney Whitaker always sounds great and he almost never uses an amp!

[Marc Piane]

I have had some of those issues. The tuning stability is annoying but I can deal with it. I did notice the response being slower. I think I've gotten used to that mostly.

The thing about amplifying is a big problem though. I can eq over it with my little GK. Probably also since that thing is not that loud I'm getting plenty of acoustic tone in there. I recently bought a Clarus and an Aguilar cab. The Spiros sound great. Eudoxas quite the contrary.

I should just switch back to Spiros too. I have a set of Dominants and Animas to try first though.

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by fingers

I have a set of Animas. How do those amplify?

Gorgeously. If you've never played them before, I would warn you to expect to spend about a month letting your fingers and your bass get used to them. Then it's all good.

Originally Posted by brianh

Honnestly, I'm really thinking of just going back to Spirocore Orchestra strings (Weichs are a bit too thin for me I think). I'm sort of kicking myself for messing around the issue so much becuase there are SO many great players who use Spiros it should be obvious. Rodney Whitaker always sounds great and he almost never uses an amp!

Brian, it's too bad you're not in B-town anymore because I just acquired Rodney Whitaker's old pre-war Juzek (humongous, with like a 44" string length) as a (perhaps temporary) replacement for my other bass while it gets repaired over the next 18 months. It's got your name written all over it: this is the bass you're talking about when you talk about getting an enormous sound from Spiro mittels and never using an amp. Scott LaFaro is nowhere to be found, but with this kind of sound it doesn't matter. Even with Spiro mittels sounding their best, I still have a Dominant or and Oliv for the G.

[Uncletoad]

Animas amplify well. They are kinda slow for my tastes but I haven't played them in awhile and wouldn't be surprised if I liked them again. I play with a more manly string height and touch than I did a few years back when I had them so I might respond differently to them a second time.

Dominants always sound good amplified although like other plastic core strings can get kinda synthetic sounding as the volume goes up.

Of the two I preferred Animas overall even though I have a love/hate thing with them.

The Spirocore/Flexocor mix I'm using at the moment amplifys like gangbusters. Sounds better and better the louder it gets. Rich, tight and fat on the bottom, thick and punchy on the top. The G and D jump off the bass as you go up.

It stops sounding like "the bass" at some point like everything else when the volume goes up but it stays intact a couple more db louder than most strings.

It's nice.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

Brian, it's too bad you're not in B-town anymore because I just acquired Rodney Whitaker's old pre-war Juzek (humongous, with like a 44" string length) as a (perhaps temporary) replacement for my other bass while it gets repaired over the next 18 months. It's got your name written all over it: this is the bass you're talking about when you talk about getting an enormous sound from Spiro mittels and never using an amp. Scott LaFaro is nowhere to be found, but with this kind of sound it doesn't matter. Even with Spiro mittels sounding their best, I still have a Dominant or and Oliv for the G.

Where's my thread on this bass? Pics, history, clips, comon dude get up on it.

[Marc Piane]

I think I played that bass 10 years ago when he was in Chicago. He had dropped his bass off for some repairs at a place (now defunct) called Abbey Strings. The luthier was about to work on it when I dropped in. If it was the same bass... holy sh**. Huge. What a cannon.

Hmmm. I have a bunch of gigs coming up. Maybe this is not the best time to experiment with Velvets. When you are talking about "adjusting" what exactly can I expect? How long do they take to settle into pitch?

I want to try Dominants at some point.

I might just throw a couple Spiro Mittels on the top for now. I have a used D and G.

[Bobby King]

I'd agree that you also should try experimenting with a different pickup. In my experience, the Full Circle and the Realist provide better results with steel strings. Those pickups are darker and more microphonic and can sound muddy or boomy with gut and gut-core strings. I've had better luck with the old Underwood pickup and also a Revolution Solo pickup on my gut bass.

I've always used just the bass side element of the Underwood and recently I've been running that through a Sadowsky DI/preamp and the results are good.

[brianh]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

Gorgeously. If you've never played them before, I would warn you to expect to spend about a month letting your fingers and your bass get used to them. Then it's all good.



Brian, it's too bad you're not in B-town anymore because I just acquired Rodney Whitaker's old pre-war Juzek (humongous, with like a 44" string length) as a (perhaps temporary) replacement for my other bass while it gets repaired over the next 18 months. It's got your name written all over it: this is the bass you're talking about when you talk about getting an enormous sound from Spiro mittels and never using an amp. Scott LaFaro is nowhere to be found, but with this kind of sound it doesn't matter. Even with Spiro mittels sounding their best, I still have a Dominant or and Oliv for the G.

Thats cool...actually I will be back in B-town sometime in between April 16-19, and definately for a gig on the 18th. I'd love to check out the bass, but we should definately hang.

When I met Rodney a few years ago he had a custom built Kolstein bass which was also great. Spiros, not too-high, but just right to get a great big sound and still play a pile of bass! Honnestly though, I've heard him sound great on basses most of us would never want to play...

[bonaventura]

Originally Posted by fingers

Maybe this is not the best time to experiment with Velvets. When you are talking about "adjusting" what exactly can I expect? How long do they take to settle into pitch?

I put a new set of Velvet Animas on and kept them on for over a year. It was a couple of months before they really settled in and stayed in tune. Not huge fluctuations, just needed tuning every morning. The brashy metallic sound faded quickly, but they needed time to mellow.

All in all, it was definitely worth it. After that break-in time, they were stable in pitch and tone-wise very gut-like. Rich, complex in tone, huge volume, fundamental and punchy into the higher positions. They bow ok, once you get used to them, but mainly a great pizz string.

[brianh]

I gave in....

I just put on a new set of Spirocore Medium Orchestra strings, raised my action 2x as high and I'm back rockin'. For some reason I always found Dominants, Eudoxas, EP's, and the like much more desirable at a lower action, but Spiro's raised high is a nice sound and while not "gut like," it sure is fat, powerful, and warm.

I'm almost positive I'll sub out the G string, and possibly the D for something else...maybe EP or a Eudoxa; theres lots of choices here. However, it's good to be back and my bass really thumps with these. It seems obvious, but after several years away I forgot how nice they actually do sound.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by brianh

I gave in....

I just put on a new set of Spirocore Medium Orchestra strings, raised my action 2x as high and I'm back rockin'. For some reason I always found Dominants, Eudoxas, EP's, and the like much more desirable at a lower action, but Spiro's raised high is a nice sound and while not "gut like," it sure is fat, powerful, and warm.

I'm almost positive I'll sub out the G string, and possibly the D for something else...maybe EP or a Eudoxa; theres lots of choices here. However, it's good to be back and my bass really thumps with these. It seems obvious, but after several years away I forgot how nice they actually do sound.

Ha!!! I did the same thing last week.

[brianh]

Eudoxas do sound great, and there is no other sting that is so warm yet so clear. There are just too many other issues to deal with, especially when you're trying to gig. I hate being on a gig and having to worry about gear stuff....

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by brianh

I hate being on a gig and having to worry about gear stuff....

I hate worrying about gear stuff even when I'm not on a gig.

[Uncletoad]

And around we go round again.

Spirocores don't suck after all. They are a pretty darn good string, especially when they get worn in.



...except that G is annoying. I should replace it with Mr. X.



......and that damn D is annoying too....I wonder how gut would sound?



It's pathetic. "hey mabel, looky there. It's a brick wall. I think I should just go over there and beat my head against it".

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

"hey mabel, looky there. It's a brick wall. I think I should just go over there and beat my head against it".

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.