Fifths Tuning - Strings

[anonymous12251111]

What are your favorite combinations of strings for the Fifths Tuning?

[Mark Clout]

I used 5ths tuning for a year, but went back to 4ths. I have some strings in various assortments for 5ths if you'd like to buy any at a very reasonable price.

Mark Clout in North Bay.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by Mark Clout

I used 5ths tuning for a year, but went back to 4ths. I have some strings in various assortments for 5ths if you'd like to buy any at a very reasonable price.

Mark Clout in North Bay.

I'm more in the market for a completely new set, but thank you for your offer.

However, perhaps you could elaborate for the TB Community on your findings and preferences with your different strings, and as to why you switched back to the fourth tuning.

[Francois Blais]

Thomastik has the Spirocore set in fifths. Nicknamed Red Mitchell set.

I think the Obligatos are also available in fifth tuning.

[cadence]

I've tried both the Obligato and Spirocore 5ths sets. I ended up mixing the two, obigato on the A and D and spiro on the G and C. Sounded pretty good.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by cadence

I've tried both the Obligato and Spirocore 5ths sets. I ended up mixing the two, obigato on the A and D and spiro on the G and C. Sounded pretty good.

How is the F# tuned to G for arco? Must be a bit tight under the bow especially with a spirocore!

[Vunz]

Spirocore Red Mitchell (Mittel/medium). They bow surprisingly well (or am I just getting better? )

Cheers,
Vincent

[robobass]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

How is the F# tuned to G for arco? Must be a bit tight under the bow especially with a spirocore!

It's not an F#. I believe that for both Obli's and Spiro's the 3rd string is made specifically to be a G. A student of mine uses the Obli CGDA set. The C isn't all that, but I attribute it more to the bass, which didn't have great bottom when it was tuned in 4ths. Using a Spiro or maybe Flexocor C sounds like an idea worth trying. My impression from my brief experience with my student's bass is that since both of the bottom two strings are thicker and lower that with normal tuning, getting good articulation with the bow is a particular challenge. That said, you will probably have to experiment a bit to find the strings that work best for you.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

How is the F# tuned to G for arco? Must be a bit tight under the bow especially with a spirocore!

These sets are true fifth tuning: CGDA
The (low) G is a true G, not a F#.

[Johnny L]

When I was experimenting with 5ths tuning, the Red Mitchell spiros were my favorite strings.

I did replace the A string with a solo Dom, however...not because the spiro A wasn't a good string, but because I wanted to try it and liked it.

I use a dom G now, because I still like doms and that string doesn't break on me.

There was a time I was trying to find a set of strings I could tune back and forth between 4ths and 5ths tuning...after finding out about gut players going back and forth between orchestra and solo tuning with the same strings...but I ended up not being satisfied with anything in particular and I didn't want to spend more money to go further. Now that I have an extension it would be even easier to go back and forth, but I gave up 5ths.

[sean p]

i've tried both the red mitchell spiro set and the obligatos and i keep the spiros on all three of my basses. neither the g or c worked for me in the obligato set, and the d and a followed the obli tendency toward shortish lifespan, so i'm back with the can't-kill-em spiros. plus i like the punch of the spiros. generally speaking, the spiro c and g are full and ballsy, and the 'directness' of the sound helps, pitch-wise, on those lower strings, which were muddy with the obs. for bowing i like a dominant a on top. tried the evah g tuned up to a but the tension is uncomfortably stiff for me.

sean p

[anonymous12251111]

Thanks for all the replies. I like the resonance of fifths but am not a fan of a too "in your face" sound. I might see how a Flexocore High A works, as my experience with Spirocore strings results in a fairly scratchy bowed sound.

[Mike D.]

I don't understand why many people assume Spirocore strings don't 'work' with the bow. I believe this to be false. Spirocores are great bowed strings! The top end might be too bright but the Spiro C is what all the 5ths guys at McGill (studying with Joel Quarrington of course) use and completely stand by the Spirocore strings(these guys are serious classical players and the best in the school, so I feel their endorsement means a lot). Spiros are clear, articulate, and full sounding. What more would you ask for?!
The Obligatos in 4ths (in my experience) are very spongy/soft (which is terrible for spiccato) and they lack the focus in sound and pitch as the Spirocores. The Obligatos roll so much under the bow, which make them less appealing. I believe Spirocores (in the right hands) are a superior bowed string compared to Obligatos, by miles for sure!
The 5ths boys at McGill also like Dominants for the G, D, and high A strings. Dominants are a great bowed string as well. They have that great Thomastik vibe, maybe smoother under the bow than Spiros.
The problem with Dominants is their reliability. My friend's A string broke so many times this past year. He's actually trying out an Evah Pirazzi solo A which he really is into! I believe Pirastro is onto something with their EPs. They are great with the bow like Dominants (maybe with less 'zing'), and they are more reliable.
The Evah Pirazzi solo A is a better option than a G tuned up for sure! the tension is just right.
I think Spiro C, Evah solo F# tuned up to G (which is what the boys at McGill are doing with Spirocore/Dominants when it comes to the 'G' string), Evah regular D, and Evah solo A would bring great results!
Belcantos seem to be reliable bowed strings for basses that are on the bright side (as they have the tendency to sound sort of dead on darker sounding basses). They don't have any solo sets so 5ths tuning Belcantos isn't an option at the moment. I'd be curious to hear how a Belcanto solo A and regular D would sound for 5ths. I imagine the G, and especially the C would lack the clarity/focus of the Spirocore/Dominants.
Dominant C strings are a little inconvenient in that they are fatter than the Spiro C.
I don't know Flexocores very well, but they might sound good as well. Originals might be a tad dark and stiff.
I am even less familiar with the other Pirastro brand arco strings (Permanents, flat-chromesteel, original flatchrome, etc). People seem to like them in 4ths. Someone should test the solo/standard sets blended for 5ths. might be useful to try.
It's been very educational knowing Joel's students in 5ths, and I hope my knowledge through hearing them can add some insight into the inquiries on the matter.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/inokuchi/Joel_outside1.JPG
photo shows (Spiro C, Dominant solo F# tuned up to G, Dominant D, Dominant solo A)

[Paul New]

Velvet strings are available in a 5ths tuning set. Compas 180, I believe.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

I don't understand why many people assume Spirocore strings don't 'work' with the bow. I believe this to be false. Spirocores are great bowed strings! The top end might be too bright but the Spiro C is what all the 5ths guys at McGill (studying with Joel Quarrington of course) use and completely stand by the Spirocore strings(these guys are serious classical players and the best in the school, so I feel their endorsement means a lot). Spiros are clear, articulate, and full sounding. What more would you ask for?!
The Obligatos in 4ths (in my experience) are very spongy/soft (which is terrible for spiccato) and they lack the focus in sound and pitch as the Spirocores. The Obligatos roll so much under the bow, which make them less appealing. I believe Spirocores (in the right hands) are a superior bowed string compared to Obligatos, by miles for sure!
The 5ths boys at McGill also like Dominants for the G, D, and high A strings. Dominants are a great bowed string as well. They have that great Thomastik vibe, maybe smoother under the bow than Spiros.
The problem with Dominants is their reliability. My friend's A string broke so many times this past year. He's actually trying out an Evah Pirazzi solo A which he really is into! I believe Pirastro is onto something with their EPs. They are great with the bow like Dominants (maybe with less 'zing'), and they are more reliable.
The Evah Pirazzi solo A is a better option than a G tuned up for sure! the tension is just right.
I think Spiro C, Evah solo F# tuned up to G (which is what the boys at McGill are doing with Spirocore/Dominants when it comes to the 'G' string), Evah regular D, and Evah solo A would bring great results!
Belcantos seem to be reliable bowed strings for basses that are on the bright side (as they have the tendency to sound sort of dead on darker sounding basses). They don't have any solo sets so 5ths tuning Belcantos isn't an option at the moment. I'd be curious to hear how a Belcanto solo A and regular D would sound for 5ths. I imagine the G, and especially the C would lack the clarity/focus of the Spirocore/Dominants.
Dominant C strings are a little inconvenient in that they are fatter than the Spiro C.
I don't know Flexocores very well, but they might sound good as well. Originals might be a tad dark and stiff.
I am even less familiar with the other Pirastro brand arco strings (Permanents, flat-chromesteel, original flatchrome, etc). People seem to like them in 4ths. Someone should test the solo/standard sets blended for 5ths. might be useful to try.
It's been very educational knowing Joel's students in 5ths, and I hope my knowledge through hearing them can add some insight into the inquiries on the matter.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/inokuchi/Joel_outside1.JPG
photo shows (Spiro C, Dominant solo F# tuned up to G, Dominant D, Dominant solo A)

Great reply, I think Joel is using a custom-hand made gut string string these days by a man in Germany called "Genssler"...Or something of the sort. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Vunz]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

I am even less familiar with the other Pirastro brand arco strings (Permanents, flat-chromesteel, original flatchrome, etc). People seem to like them in 4ths. Someone should test the solo/standard sets blended for 5ths. might be useful to try.
It's been very educational knowing Joel's students in 5ths, and I hope my knowledge through hearing them can add some insight into the inquiries on the matter.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/inokuchi/Joel_outside1.JPG
photo shows (Spiro C, Dominant solo F# tuned up to G, Dominant D, Dominant solo A)

Before the Mitchell set, I used a mix of orchestral and solo Pirastro Permanents. A great hybrid fifths set, although I like the Spiros better, even for arco work.

Cheers,
Vincent

[paulunger]

Calvin,
I have not found any F# solo string that, if tuned up to G, works successfully. The solo strings generally have a much higher tension than regular strings and this makes balancing them difficult, especially if you tune them up a half step. This also applies to low B strings.

After trying a number of strings and combinations, I feel that having a lower tension balanced set is absolutely necessary.

For jazz, stick with the Spirocores. The Velvets sound and bow great but are ridiculously thick and, for me, made playing a four finger technique impossible. Currently, I just use the Obligato set. If I need a lot more punch on the bottom, I temporarily put on an F# solo Obligato and the Velvet or Spirocore low C. I also use the Obligatos because they match the Obligato high E that I use for bassetto tuning.

A lot of the guys are using, and swear by, the Sonores strings made for them by Gerold Genssler. Try contacting Dennis Mazzuso, he has lots of useful information and is a great guy.

[anonymous12251111]

Thanks. So the basic strings are...

Thomastik Spirocore Red Mitchell 5th Set
Pirastro Obligato 5th Set
Spiro Low C and Dominant Orchestral/Solo blend for the rest
Velvet...I hate velvet so no thanks.

I might order the Spiro/Dominant blend because it seems that's what most people are using and seems like a reasonable starting point, obviously the Low G string is going to be the toughest to match, maybe the Red Mitchell G would be better than a Dominant Solo f#

[Mike D.]

sounds about right. If the Dominants are not to your taste (or you're worried about the reliability issue), you should try the Evah Pirazzis now that the solo set is available.
The Evah Pirazzis seem to be some of the best strings Pirastro has come up with.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

sounds about right. If the Dominants are not to your taste (or you're worried about the reliability issue), you should try the Evah Pirazzis now that the solo set is available.
The Evah Pirazzis seem to be some of the best strings Pirastro has come up with.

I'm currently trying to sell a set of Evah's that I had on my bass for only 2 days. I personally did not like these strings at all. The E and A felt quite nice for arco playing but the D and A were very slow to respond under the bow and fingers and I attribute that to how thick the gauge is...Also the sound starts to get very choked once you enter thumb position, so I would call these purely "orchestral" strings.

I think Evah's have a good sound but I don't think they would make a good fifths blend set because of how thick the gauge is on the D string...You'd end up with a thin Solo A, a thick slow responding D, and a very bright F# (G) string...