Gamut Guts

Uncletoad · #1 11-07-2006, 08:25 AM

You all are going to now know that I'm completely nuts. I ran out of gas with the Belcantos for the moment. To much work pizz. Just after I bought the Belcantos I also bought a used Gamut Gut D and G from a friendly TB. I put them on for a gigless weekend and they sounded terrible. I realized I needed to give them some time to settle in and didn't have it. So I waited until this weekend. I put them on Friday night after my gig and practiced. I ended up pairing them with my beloved Stark Spiro E and a silver wound gut A string I've had for awhile that is old and unidentified. (purple wrap and ancient. Anybody know what that is?)

They are beginning to settle in. I LOVE that sound. That A string is fantastic. Pizz they balance well together. The bow is going to take some time. I'm back to scaring children and cats again. Quite a change from the sweet Belcantos.

There are always issues. I have to tune them every other bar. I have to raise the string height quite a bit which is only a problem with the Stark E. Up high that thing will kill me. It sounds better lower.

I may need to pair up another E.

So I got a last minute call last night to run a demo for a fellow in his project studio last night. I have only had the Guts on for 3 days but I decided to wing it. Tuning issues aside they sound fantastic. Quickie hookup with the Full Circle and an AKG 414. I'll try to get a copy and post it.

I'm going to try to hang with these through some gigs. Last time I tried guts on a gig was a disaster. But they were Labella and decidedly not near as good as these.

Nnick has been bugging me to go gut for a year.....so here goes.

Marcus Johnson · #2 11-07-2006, 10:12 AM

Hehe.... Leif Ericson, Christopher Columbus, Vasco De Gama....these guys got nuthin' on you, Phil.

You go, boy.

M Ramsey · #3 11-08-2006, 05:45 AM

Uncle Toad,

You wait until they completely settle. There will always be tuning issues, but what a small price to pay for the tone and sound!

I wish I could play them everywhere I go, but it's just crazy to think about playing guts in the heat and humidity of NC and other Southeastern BG festivals.

Nice inside concerts and shows are my joy!

ToR-Tu-Ra · #4 11-08-2006, 03:45 PM

A question for the Gamut "gourmets":

What's the difference between Lyon and Pistoy strings?

**Adrian Cho** · #5 11-08-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToR-Tu-Ra

A question for the Gamut "gourmets":

What's the difference between Lyon and Pistoy strings?

The Pistoy string is more flexible than the Lyon string. This makes it a slightly better string for bowing, especially at higher tensions. For lots of pizzicato, Dan recommends the Lyon type of string as it has a slightly quicker response and feel.

Uncletoad · #6 11-11-2006, 02:10 AM

Those Gamuts are fantastic strings. They speak well up the neck and into thumb without anywhere near the effort of most other steel strings. Notes are plenty long enough.

Stay in tune pretty well.

Gotta leave the bow in the case. Uggh...nasty. I have no skill for that with these strings.

Now I just need to find a balance for the E and A.

My old gut A was a dead guy on the gig.

Stark A took it's spot.

Love that Stark E and A but the tensions and string height requirements are to pretty far apart. Starks like it low, Guts like it high. I may be able to accomodate.

Mittel and weich are not a good sound to me.

I suppose I'll try the dominant E and A I've got in the drawer. I just haven't been digging them right now.

I've read the other threads on pairing. I'm tired of buying strings. I'm going to use what I have.

Marcus Johnson · #7 11-11-2006, 03:49 AM

Phil, as much as I appreciate you being at the forefront of string experimentation, I'm paying close attention to your posts in this section. It's almost starting to sound like you're talking to yourself, and if it starts reading like "Flowers For Algernon", I'm sending someone over to your place to get you out for some fresh air.

Uncletoad · #8 11-11-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Phil, as much as I appreciate you being at the forefront of string experimentation, I'm paying close attention to your posts in this section. It's almost starting to sound like you're talking to yourself, and if it starts reading like "Flowers For Algernon", I'm sending someone over to your place to get you out for some fresh air.

Yes I realized some time back in an Anima thread that I had begun to blog rather than dialog. Uncletoad's progris riport. Except I never get any smarter. Just have less money.

Put fud and fresh water under the door.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #9 11-11-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Hehe.... Leif Ericson, Christopher Columbus, Vasco De Gama....these guys got nuthin' on you, Phil.

You go, boy.

I was thinking maybe more along the lines of Leif Garrett and Christopher Walken, but..... "you go, boy" indeed.

**Adrian Cho** · #10 11-11-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Now I just need to find a balance for the E and A.

Permanents. I have been using Permanents with Gamut guts for some time now and the match is very good. I recently played jar240's bass with Olivs and Permanents and it's also a good setup.

Uncletoad · #11 11-11-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzmacdaddy

I was thinking maybe more along the lines of Leif Garrett and Christopher Walken, but..... "you go, boy" indeed.

Indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoAdrian

Permanents. I have been using Permanents with Gamut guts for some time now and the match is very good. I recently played jar240's bass with Olivs and Permanents and it's also a good setup.

You've said that a bunch and I'm listening. Anybody got a Permanent E and A they aren't using?

Marcus Johnson · #12 11-11-2006, 12:02 PM

Leif Garrett... now there's a guy that knows how to experiment.

Uncletoad · #13 11-11-2006, 11:47 PM

Charlie's string riport.

Nice loud rock gig tonight. Big PA in a 500 seater. Dominants on bottom of Gamuts on top.

Smokin good sound. Yikes.

I amazed at how well the Gamuts speak in the upper register. Thats that old dead guy sound on Blanton recordings when he goes up the neck and still projects.

Don't have to punish them to get that sound. They are loud as all get out up there while still having low end.

Man. Fantastic.

**Adrian Cho** · #14 11-12-2006, 01:34 AM

That's right. That's why I've been going constantly going on about them. A big difference between guts like that and Chordas, Efranos, etc. You get what you pay for.

**Jeremy Allen** · #15 11-12-2006, 05:28 PM

Phil,
I'm enjoying the blog. I got a Cleveland ply last week and I have a few questions for you if you don't mind:
1) On other basses I've owned, string response in terms of volume/meatiness has gone (from low to high): spirocores (weichs, then mittels), Dominants, Animas, and Garbos. (The new mittels on the new Cleveland are pretty freakin' loud and meaty, though, so I don't know if everything's different on this one). Since you've used most of those strings, I think, where would you say the Gamuts fit in on that list?
And:
2) On the same basses, string response in terms of both left and right hand "articulatibility" (if that's a word) seems to be, from high to low, spirocores, dominants, Animas, and Garbos. (In other words, playing a Scott LaFaro transcription on Spiros is a breeze, relatively speaking, but doing so on Garbos is like pulling a train up a mountain). Where do you think Gamuts are on that list?

Adrian Cho, feel free to chime in on this as well, especially if you want to add anything about the bowability of the Gamuts (would you do a recital on them and play a cello suite?).

Thanks, guys, for the gas! Seriously.

Uncletoad · #16 11-12-2006, 06:26 PM

Those are really good questions.

1. On the Cleveland I think I got the most volume from Dominants. Spiro Mittels and Animas being very close under that. Overall those three strings are all closer in volume to each other than Flexocor, Belcantos, Obligatos and Weichs, which are significantly less loud.

The volume of the Gamuts is somewhere nearby the Dominants or Spiros. They are paired up with Dominants now and the combo is very complimentary. Maybe just under the volume of Dominant D and G.

Spiro Mittels on the E and A were louder than the Dominants but with Starks the E and A couldn't keep up with the Gamuts. Tension changes from even one different string change the whole response of the bass and affect overall volume.

The Gamuts are pretty good volume strings.

The D string is a bit thuddy compared to the the G string. The G really sings.

2. Articulation is harder to quantify. They are very low tension but quick and have a nice front to the note. I find a lighter pull on those works better than a strong one. Sometimes I get stuck and loose a note as my right hand is preparing for a stroke that it doesn't need to make. I dig in to hard on them and need to lighten up.

I'm still learning how to play them. I'd have more to say about that after several more weeks.

With my terrible bow work they sound hideous. I sound better with a bow on Spirocores. I'm probably going to string my backup bass with the becantos just to practice with the bow. These Gamuts will take me forever to learn how to bow.

I like the mix with Dominants better than the Spiros but I'm still not sold on the Dominants overall. The plastic core betrays itself over time and leaves me wanting either metal or gut on the inside.

I've got a Eudoxa E somewhere around here. I may experiment with that.

**Adrian Cho** · #17 11-12-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johono5

1) On other basses I've owned, string response in terms of volume/meatiness has gone (from low to high): spirocores (weichs, then mittels), Dominants, Animas, and Garbos. (The new mittels on the new Cleveland are pretty freakin' loud and meaty, though, so I don't know if everything's different on this one). Since you've used most of those strings, I think, where would you say the Gamuts fit in on that list?
And:
2) On the same basses, string response in terms of both left and right hand "articulatibility" (if that's a word) seems to be, from high to low, spirocores, dominants, Animas, and Garbos. (In other words, playing a Scott LaFaro transcription on Spiros is a breeze, relatively speaking, but doing so on Garbos is like pulling a train up a mountain). Where do you think Gamuts are on that list?

Some of this is very subjective of course. The thing about Gamuts is tone, tone, tone especially for pizz. For arco too, the tone is very complex and while dedicated Early Music players will play on them (that is what they are made for after all), most people will have a bear of a time bowing on them. They are very unforgiving under the bow and will choke up easily if too much pressure is applied. You have to concentrate on using bow speed more than pressure and you need to have the right hair, rosin, etc. to get a good grab on these strings. I think any string with metal windings will have more definition than the Gamuts which helps them cut through. However the amount of volume from the Gamuts is very high which is to be expected given the size of the strings. The Gamuts definitely will not fit into an orchestral section of basses with metal wound strings - they stick out greatly. If you can do it however, they absolutely can work for solo arco but they do have a very specific sound. I personally find it rather nice - very much like a human voice.

In terms of articulation, it's always going to be harder with the Gamuts. For pizz they are bigger and they can get sticky under the fingers. If I am playing continuously in hot conditions, I have to wipe my hands and the strings every now and then. There was one night I remember when I just couldn't execute anything fast because my fingers kept sticking to the strings. However that happens rarely to any extent that I remember it like that. For arco, articulation is very hard because it's so easy to not grab the string or choke it.

dfp · #18 11-14-2006, 09:15 AM

sorry if i missed this detail somewhere, but could you tell us which variety of Gamut strings, and what gauge you are trying and reporting on?
thanks for sharing!

Uncletoad · #19 11-14-2006, 08:22 PM

Gamut Contra bass D-2 Lyon Gut Medium varnished 2.9mm. (measure .080")
Gamut Contra bass G-1 Lyon Gut Medium varnished 2.1mm. (measure .110")

I believe Adrian Cho uses the same thing in Light gage.

**Adrian Cho** · #20 11-14-2006, 10:13 PM

I am tempted in the future to try heavier gauges but I will need to get my bridge reshaped. As it is now, with the light gauge D and the Permanent A next to one another, there is not a lot of clearance with the bow so it's tricky to not sometimes hit the D when I'm trying to play on the A string. A thicker D would make it even worse.