Good old Gut sound

sadowskyschmaus · #1 10-03-2006, 02:22 PM

I recently put a set of Lezner gut strings on my old kay and man I couldn't be happier with the sound. I have an iamp 500 and blend a wilson pu with a gb mic and it sounds great. I know they take more work to maintain, but wow what a sound. ANyway if any of you gut string users would like to chime in please do.

**Adrian Cho** · #2 10-03-2006, 02:29 PM

Of course man - gut rules! Actually gut can be a real pain sometimes but try as I might, I'm addicted to it. Dig in!

Kevinlee · #3 10-03-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

I'm addicted to it.

Me too. I keep trying to break the habbit but can't stay away. I have animas on one of my basses right now and I like them quite a bit. But when I play my other bass strung with guts I realize I'm still hooked!

Kevinlee

Bobby King · #4 10-03-2006, 09:26 PM

After all my back and forth with strings, I've finally decided that I need (and am fortunate to have) two basses. One is strung with gut and the other steel. I love gut best for most all pizz situations, occasionally I prefer steel for certain jazz settings. Although some here do their arco on gut, I really prefer and get a much better sound when I bow on steel.

Gut has the punch, thick deep tone and great feel that first made me love the bass, and in the past when I only had one bass, I was never entirely happy when I was in a steel phase.
Also, in the end I love traditional gut sets best -- plain G&D and roundwound E&A as opposed to all the other gut core and synthetics that I spent gazillions on (Oliv, Eudoxa, Pizzicato, Anima, Garbo, Innovation, Obligato). All of those are fine strings mind you, but for gut I like gut. Steel also has it's good qualities, but likewise, then I prefer a steel core. So it's 2 basses for me.

JimmyM · #5 10-03-2006, 09:57 PM

I'm with Bobby. I want two basses, one with steels, one with guts. But since I only have one and probably won't be getting another one any time soon thanks to this damn saltwater fishtank I'm setting up and the new Turser Beatle Bass and two teenagers who keep hounding me to buy them cars (dream on fellas), I settled on steels just because they're more versatile. And quite frankly, I'm playing better on the steels than I ever did with guts.

Still, other than the E string, I love guts and would love a bass with them again.

**Adrian Cho** · #6 10-03-2006, 09:57 PM

I can certainly understand why you'd want a bass strung with steel. When I went to try out my new bass recently at CSC, it was strung with Helicore Hybrids. It sounded fantastic and was so damn easy to play. It seriously made me think about losing the guts. Then when Arnold was setting up my bass with the guts taken off my previous bass, the G was buzzing a lot (and still is a little bit) even with a good 9 - 10 mm string action. And the D sounded really dead. I was really worried and on the drive back home with the bass, I was wondering if the bass would only sound good with higher tension strings.

However now that the strings are up to pitch they sound fantastic. I probably need a new G string as this one is probably a little more worn than I realised. The thing is, every time I get in a situation when I struggle with the guts, I think about dropping them but then I play them in a better situation and I know why I could never drop them. The one mistake I made in the past is to always try and recreate the sound even when it didn't make sense. Such as when it's just loud as hell and no one really cares about the bass tone. So now I have a Full Circle on this bass and the purpose of having it is just to help cut through the wall of noise when I'm in those situations. However for the other situations it's no amp or a mic all the way and it sounds great. Tonight I played with a Sephardic group playing folk music - no amp of course and it sounded just beautiful.

musicman5string · #7 10-03-2006, 10:02 PM

After playing steel for my first few years, I got a G and D gut from Damien Duluglecki (sp?). I used Spiro Orchs for the E and A.
At the time I was totally enamored with Scoot LaFaro's, Charlie Haden's, and Ron Carter's (from the 60's Miles recordings) sounds.

I got close. Real close. Problem was I couldn't quote play like those guys. However, the bass sounded great. Rufus Reid called it a "cannon".

However, as I was studying classical as well at the time, I switched to all Spirocore Orchestras.....man, what a difference. Not that they're the greatest arco string, but night and day over gut. Combine that with the fact that steels amplify with a pickup better that gut...there you go.

Still love the sound though. Recently Ray Brown's sound on Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests" got me all falling in love with guts again......

**Adrian Cho** · #8 10-03-2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I'm with Bobby. I want two basses, one with steels, one with guts. But since I only have one and probably won't be getting another one any time soon thanks to this damn saltwater fishtank I'm setting up and the new Turser Beatle Bass and two teenagers who keep hounding me to buy them cars (dream on fellas)

Yeah forget that man. Do you know how many gut strings you can buy instead of a car?

**Adrian Cho** · #9 10-04-2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

However, as I was studying classical as well at the time, I switched to all Spirocore Orchestras.....man, what a difference. Not that they're the greatest arco string, but night and day over gut.

The funny thing of course is that both Damian's strings and Dan Larson's strings that I use, are actually designed as arco strings for playing early music.

KSB - Ken Smith · #10 10-04-2006, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

After playing steel for my first few years, I got a G and D gut from Damien Duluglecki (sp?). I used Spiro Orchs for the E and A.
At the time I was totally enamored with Scoot LaFaro's, Charlie Haden's, and Ron Carter's (from the 60's Miles recordings) sounds.

I got close. Real close. Problem was I couldn't quote play like those guys. However, the bass sounded great. Rufus Reid called it a "cannon".

However, as I was studying classical as well at the time, I switched to all Spirocore Orchestras.....man, what a difference. Not that they're the greatest arco string, but night and day over gut. Combine that with the fact that steels amplify with a pickup better that gut...there you go.

Still love the sound though. Recently Ray Brown's sound on Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests" got me all falling in love with guts again......

I could almost swear that on "We Get Requests" Ray is using Spiros on that German Bass. I believe that on his older recordings with that large Italianish Bass, he used only Guts but even in the pics of that record, it looks like steel to me as well as sounds like steel.

On the Gut thing with wound Gut A and E, what brands of Gut are you guys using and what are the differences between these brands? If LaBella still makes Gut, how do they rank in the mix?

Why am I asking? Well, I too am thinking of have one of my Basses strung up with Gut to have that old fat sound as well. I do some Trio gigs on occassion and I think Gut would work great for that gig. A couple of weeks ago I did that gig and used an old AKG 160E Mic wrapped in foam in the middle of my Bridge like in the old days and the Bass sounded so natural. I played a few tunes with no Mic at all but they needed a tad more presence so I put the Amp back on. I think Gut might make the difference on the right Bass. Now I just have to choose between my round sounding Bisiach labelled Bass (which I have up for sale

) or.. my Loveri that I am not selling and use at home for practicing which has a nice punchy sound more suited for Jazz than Orchestra at the moment.

musicman5string · #11 10-04-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

I could almost swear that on "We Get Requests" Ray is using Spiros on that German Bass. I believe that on his older recordings with that large Italianish Bass, he used only Guts but even in the pics of that record, it looks like steel to me as well as sounds like steel.

To me, none of the pics on that CD are clear enough to determine that they're steel.
However the sound I'm hearing is all gut; same sound as "Night Train" and "Live In Chicago" except this particular recoding is recorded better.
Hey Ken, how about we bet on it and if I'm right I get a nice discount on one of your bass guitars?

KSB - Ken Smith · #12 10-04-2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

To me, none of the pics on that CD are clear enough to determine that they're steel.
However the sound I'm hearing is all gut; same sound as "Night Train" and "Live In Chicago" except this particular recoding is recorded better.
Hey Ken, how about we bet on it and if I'm right I get a nice discount on one of your bass guitars?

On the 'We get Requests' do you have the album, cd or both? I had the album and heard it 100s of times way way back. Now I have the cd and the sound is much much clearer. Some advice!? 'Don't bet the farm on this one'. He switched to steel way before the record was made... I think..

So, for traditional Gut, plain/wound combo, who likes what and why as compared to what??

**Adrian Cho** · #13 10-04-2006, 07:45 AM

I'm not using wound gut on the bottom strings so I can't directly answer your question. I'm using Permanents and after years of using Eudoxas on the bottom, I really feel that guts on the bottom are not all that necessary. It's the ones on the top that really make the most difference to the sound. Having steel on the bottom gives you a more stable basis for tuning and the whole set ends up being a lot less expensive and easier to maintain because it's the wound guts that often have problems (e.g. windings coming undone).

M Ramsey · #14 10-04-2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

So, for traditional Gut, plain/wound combo, who likes what and why as compared to what??

I'm using some Red O Rays for my E and A. These were new old stock from probably 25-30 years back. I have one more set of them that I plan on keeping as backups. On top I've used Lenzers and have some old Gs and Ds as backups as well.

My second bass (both of them American Standards) is strung with Velvet Animas right now, but I have used Garbos on that bass. Similar to gut, NOT gut though, but it's close for playing outside like in Dollywood for 3 days Sept 22-24. Rain everyday and no real problems with tuning. I like that.

Now mind you, all my stuff is pizzicato.

KSB - Ken Smith · #15 10-04-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Ramsey

I'm using some Red O Rays for my E and A. These were new old stock from probably 25-30 years back. I have one more set of them that I plan on keeping as backups. On top I've used Lenzers and have some old Gs and Ds as backups as well.

My second bass (both of them American Standards) is strung with Velvet Animas right now, but I have used Garbos on that bass. Similar to gut, NOT gut though, but it's close for playing outside like in Dollywood for 3 days Sept 22-24. Rain everyday and no real problems with tuning. I like that.

Now mind you, all my stuff is pizzicato.

What is the 'Jury' on the playability Bow/Pizz combined of a traditional Gut set, Gut top/steel bottom or gut-like strings such as Pir.Pizzacatos or Oliv tops and Eudoxa bottoms in comparison?

As I look for a set of Guts to try, I also want to try the Gut-wound strings from Pirastro as mentioned above. Your thoughts please?

Also, I wonder what or if any of these has an Ext. E/C string or am I just going standard 4?

**Adrian Cho** · #16 10-04-2006, 10:06 AM

As far as extensions go, Pirastro will make special order long Oliv and Eudoxa E/C strings. I had a Eudoxa from them for a while but never used it and sent it back to Quinn and got a full refund for it. The string was like $160!! Damian Dlugolecki, Dan Larson (Gamut) and Aquila can't make an extension string as their machines aren't long enough to do the winding. I checked with all of them.

I find Permanents and the Gamut guts I am using are very well matched for both pizz and arco. Before that I used Olivs on top and Eudoxas on the bottom and found them to be a good match. Pirastro Pizzicatos ARE gut core (not gut-like). As the name suggests however, they are not good for arco. I tried them and didn't like them.

I would like to experiment with other steels and gut but I'm pretty happy with the Permanents both for pizz and arco. When I got the new bass recently I was trying to think what else to try with the guts but just decided to go with what I knew. The problem is finding a decent E/C string. So many of them crap out on the bottom end. Spirocore is of course great but a little bright with gut on the top. I tried a Kolstein Varicor extension string and was disappointed. A Helicore Hybrid extension string might be interesting if they make one. Superflexible also might be interesting.

KSB - Ken Smith · #17 10-04-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

As far as extensions go, Pirastro will make special order long Oliv and Eudoxa E/C strings. I had a Eudoxa from them for a while but never used it and sent it back to Quinn and got a full refund for it. The string was like $160!! Damian Dlugolecki, Dan Larson (Gamut) and Aquila can't make an extension string as their machines aren't long enough to do the winding. I checked with all of them.

I find Permanents and the Gamut guts I am using are very well matched for both pizz and arco. Before that I used Olivs on top and Eudoxas on the bottom and found them to be a good match. Pirastro Pizzicatos ARE gut core (not gut-like). As the name suggests however, they are not good for arco. I tried them and didn't like them.

I would like to experiment with other steels and gut but I'm pretty happy with the Permanents both for pizz and arco. When I got the new bass recently I was trying to think what else to try with the guts but just decided to go with what I knew. The problem is finding a decent E/C string. So many of them crap out on the bottom end. Spirocore is of course great but a little bright with gut on the top. I tried a Kolstein Varicor extension string and was disappointed. A Helicore Hybrid extension string might be interesting if they make one. Superflexible also might be interesting.

On The Pizzacatos, they do 'not' Bow well from what I have heard but are they a good Jazz string in your opinion? I have heard a good review about them. And for the Bow/Pizz combo you seem to like the Oliv/Eudoxa combo as I suspected would work. Do you prefer the Gut/Permanent combo over the Pirastro flatwound Gut combo? If so, what are or were you looking for that made you settle on that combo?.. Also, (am I booring anyone yet?.. sry.. really need to know..) do you think the Pirastro Bows the best of the two combos?

musicman5string · #18 10-04-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

On the 'We get Requests' do you have the album, cd or both? I had the album and heard it 100s of times way way back. Now I have the cd and the sound is much much clearer. Some advice!? 'Don't bet the farm on this one'. He switched to steel way before the record was made... I think..

Ken-
I have the CD now, but for years I had the album. Either way, I'm still saying gut strings. I'm curious to know why you think those are steels? If you really listen to any of the notes on the G or D strings it's obvious to me that they're gut; they just sound....I dunno, "wider", "less pointy", "warmer", and, well...not steel.
Perhaps you haven't heard the album in a while. Recently I was going over my transcriptions from it. Great, melodic, beautiful lines from Ray, as usual.
Anyway, not to get into an arguement over it; a great album no matter what.
If you want to cut me that discount on a Black Tiger 5 string fretless in exhibition grade claro walnut, that would be sweet.

KSB - Ken Smith · #19 10-04-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

Ken-
I have the CD now, but for years I had the album. Either way, I'm still saying gut strings. I'm curious to know why you think those are steels? If you really listen to any of the notes on the G or D strings it's obvious to me that they're gut; they just sound....I dunno, "wider", "less pointy", "warmer", and, well...not steel.
Perhaps you haven't heard the album in a while. Recently I was going over my transcriptions from it. Great, melodic, beautiful lines from Ray, as usual.
Anyway, not to get into an arguement over it; a great album no matter what.
If you want to cut me that discount on a Black Tiger 5 string fretless in exhibition grade claro walnut, that would be sweet.

I just got the CD and its in my car now. Listened to it all week. Got Scotty in there now BUT for you, I will throw RB back in to see what and if I might owe you. BTW, What do I win?

To me, they sound like steel all the way. Paul W. might know. He knew RB personally back then I think.

musicman5string · #20 10-04-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

I just got the CD and its in my car now. Listened to it all week. Got Scotty in there now BUT for you, I will throw RB back in to see what and if I might owe you. BTW, What do I win?

To me, they sound like steel all the way. Paul W. might know. He knew RB personally back then I think.

Eh...I guess they could be steel but if they are, they sound alot different to me then any of Ray's recordings from the 1980's on.

What do you win? Hmm.....well, I don't own a million dollar bass company, so giving you a discount on a bass is out.....how about a cup of coffee from a store of your choosing?