Good string for harmonics

[Yukon4]

My son's bass now has Helicore Hybrid Mediums on there. He's working on a concerto with a bunch of harmonic passages and, quite frankly, they don't sound that good. Partly his technique, but someone suggested different strings might help cut back on that "fingernails across a blackboard" sound. Maybe just plain Helicore Arco Medium?

Any ideas on this? He does play mostly with bow, at this point...

[jsbarber]

While some people don't think that they are great bowing strings, (and others disagree), Spirocore Mittels would be very good for harmonics. They take a while to break in, but they are a harmonically rich string, and I think they sound great when bowed. My teacher loves them, and I saw him perform two weeks ago and he played a passage with extensive harmonics in it and it was great.

Jim

[PaulCannon]

Spirocores may have decent harmonics, I wouldn't know. But you shouldn't buy strings just for their harmonics, which are used so infrequently that they shouldn't be of any major concern when string shopping.

The best string for arco use I know of are the Thomastik Bel Cantos. The pizz stuff is acceptable on them, and the orchestral capabilities the strings present are unmatched.

[Yukon4]

Thanks - will definitely check those out!

[Reuben]

+1 for Spirocore mittels.

They're the best.

[Johnny L]

Hey you could try having your son move the bow a little faster instead of switching strings right away. That might take some of the scratch out.

If experimenting with bow speed doesn't improve to your satisfaction, then go for a different string option.

Personally, if I didn't like Corellis so much I'd be using hybrids myself for bowing. For me they bow great, especially the lights.

[Yukon4]

He's started going lighter on the bowing and that seems to help cut out a lot of scratchiness, but nevertheless, still sometimes gets a loud "screech" instead of a nice, mellow note. Thanks!

[vier-personen]

also wiping strings over the whole length with alcohol helps bring out harmonics (but I´m sure you know to be careful, alcohol can ruin varnish).

[TimoMetzemakers]

Originally Posted by Yukon4

He's started going lighter on the bowing and that seems to help cut out a lot of scratchiness, but nevertheless, still sometimes gets a loud "screech" instead of a nice, mellow note.

That's technique. I'm beginning to think that the issue is not getting strings with good harmonics, but strings that are easy to bow. IMHO, you should heed Paul Cannon's advice, who knows what he's doing with the bow.

[kwd]

When you're producing a scratchy, volatile sound the most unnatural thing to do is the move the bow faster and use more pressure. Having been through this myself recently, it sounds like that's what needs to be done. He should also be moving toward the bridge with the bow as he plays in higher positions. My teacher told me that a good rule of thumb for bow position is 1/8 of the vibrating length of the string from the bridge.

I think you might be better served looking for technique advice in the Orchestral Technique forum. Is your son working out of the Petracchi book? If I hadn't put in some time with that before attempting a thumb position passage in a piece, I would have thrown my bass in a dumpster.

I can't speak from any experience about the results of using alcohol to increase the harmonics. I can tell you that if you are going to use alcohol on your strings, use denatured alcohol. Rubbing alcohol has water in it. It can create an undesirable varnish on the surface of the string and/or the bow hair. If that happens, you'll have more screech to tame.

[Reuben]

In my experience, if one is having a hrd time sounding natural harmonics the fault lies in the accuracy of the players left-hand fingering, not the bow, not the type of strings, not the position of the bow...

Natural harmonics are generally easier to sound than stopped notes, but if your fingering is off (even by a little) you're going to hear scratch and skid.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by Reuben

In my experience, if one is having a hrd time sounding natural harmonics the fault lies in the accuracy of the players left-hand fingering, not the bow, not the type of strings, not the position of the bow...

Natural harmonics are generally easier to sound than stopped notes, but if your fingering is off (even by a little) you're going to hear scratch and skid.

Yeah the left hand's important no doubt about it...gotta be on the right note.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by TimoMetzemakers

I'm beginning to think that the issue is not getting strings with good harmonics, but strings that are easy to bow. IMHO, you should heed Paul Cannon's advice, who knows what he's doing with the bow.

Yeah I agree that the belcantos will work great with harmonics..

[Baird]

+1 for the Belcantos. Belcantos certainly have increased my bass harmonic response!
There is no substitute for making sure you are on top of that harmonic. He should slow the piece down sufficiently to make sure every harmonic speaks fully and clearly, then proceed to speeding it up. If it starts to sound squeaky again, slow it back down and work up again. A fast bow near the bridge will also aid in making those harmonics speak.

...but good arco strings certainly do help!
Good luck!

[Yukon4]

Thank you - very good advice and information here. No doubt technique is a huge contributor to the squawking sounds. I'm thinking it can't hurt to have better arco strings too so we're going to get a set (helicore orchestras) Will definitely check the technique forum too!

[Yukon4]

Strike that - I think we'll splurge and go for the Bel Cantos.(double the price of the helicores!) Do they "break in" pretty quickly? Thanks again.

[PaulCannon]

Originally Posted by Yukon4

Strike that - I think we'll splurge and go for the Bel Cantos.(double the price of the helicores!) Do they "break in" pretty quickly? Thanks again.

Very good choice. They work very well out of the box, and improve somewhat after a couple months.