Good strings for country and blues: un-amped?

badumba · #1 05-17-2009, 09:11 PM

Hi all,
I have an old Epiphone plywoood bass with 20-25 yr old nylon strings of unknown origin. I would like to update to something not too tight, but LOUD. I live and play in Austin and the city has come down hard on many restaurants for amplified music. 'Unplugged' is becoming the norm for many gigs.

I strive to play like Ray Brown with an occasional slap thrown in to keep a percussive element in acoustic trios w/no drums.

Without being snooty and judgmental, can anyone offer some advice? I can't afford a new bass now.

Thank in advance for any good advice,

badumba

Bobby King · #2 05-17-2009, 09:44 PM

It sounds like Velvet Garbo or Velvet Anima would be good for you -- they are flexible and project well acoustically. They are fairly expensive strings though, you might find some used in the classifieds.

Ray Brown played on steel stings since the early 60's, but they may be what you'd consider "too tight". You might consider Spirocores in the "weich" or light gauge. If you had old nylon stings on your bass, they were probably LaBella Supernils. Those are very different from Spirocores, Velvets will be more familiar.

If you want a newer nylon sting that isn't too expensive, you could try Innovation's Super Silvers, or even the black Rockabillys.

I'd go with Velvet Garbo. LNR Music had the best price on these.

Gearhead43 · #3 05-17-2009, 10:16 PM

+1 all very good suggestions.

Thanks for keeping it non-snooty Bobby.

badumba · #4 05-18-2009, 07:08 AM

Many, many thanks Bobby...I'll check the Velvet Garbos first.

TroyK · #5 05-18-2009, 12:55 PM

yeah, i think those are good suggestions. I use Spriocore Weichs and can vouch for them, but they may or may not be the loudest on your bass. It depends. Spriocore Mittels would likely give you want you want sonically, but coming from Nylon, would probably seem too tight for you.

I like Garbos, but Animas might be a better choice for you. They'll have a little more bite, to cut through room and other instruments. Things like bus tubes, dishwashers and blenders, not to mention table conversation can really chew up a lot of otherwise beautiful dark tone.

Your other option is a set of Gut Strings. Bob sells an inexpensive set that we rallied to put on Butch Warren's bass a few years ago, which he was very happy with. It would give you a similar sound to what you were going for with nylon strings, but likely much louder and more authentic sounding. Very old school Ray Brown, Mingus, or any of the early country/blues/bluegrass/early Rock and Roll kind of sound. Easy on the hands and slappable, or so I'm told.

There are drawbacks to gut that you should read about, most notably the way they respond to changes in humidity. Animas would be more stable once they settle in.

Two final thoughts:

If you can buy your strings from a good local shop in Austin, have them install them and check your soundpost placement and whatnot while they're at it. Changing strings can necessitate subtle, but very necessary changes and that alone can increase the volume and response of your bass. If it's been a while, it might be worth it anyway. Most places won't charge for instillation and simple adjustments if you buy from them. If you order, it's still worth an hour on a luthier's bench. You will get a return on that investment if you're playing unplugged in Austin, I promise you.

Second, if the strings you have on there are old, then a new set will likely wake the bass up on it's own. Strings do tend to die over time and this seems to be especially true with synthetic strings.

Hope something in there is helpful.

mchildree · #6 05-18-2009, 01:25 PM

I've done a lot of completely acoustic bluegrass and country gigs with my NS Cleveland ply bass and the best strings I found for this were Innovation Super Silvers. For me, they sounded like a slightly more defined gut tone and plenty of volume. I always have other players comment on the volume of my bass.

badumba · #7 05-18-2009, 08:54 PM

TroyK and mchildree,
I sincerely thank you for the the suggestions and comments. For the record, I am a P-bass player of 35+ years, mostly R&B, but moved to Austin for the scene and the lifestyle. The opportunities here are good IF you're flexible and good...which I believe I am. Admittedly, my acoustic chops are down but getting better and I'm a little overwhelmed with what it takes financially to get acoustically where I need to be.....I'm taking baby steps. I have a beautiful Czech bass I played in college that has suffered 20 yrs of neglect. I also have a 'hacker' Epiphone (basically a Kay) that is playable in spite of a rising fingerboard. I should get the Czech bass repaired and fitted out but it will probably cost $3-4K - which ain't happening soon. I heard about a guy in San Antonio that is Pro..but can't find his #.

Today, I went ahead and sprung for the Velvet Garbos for the Epiphone. I'll see what they do for me. I figure I can always sell them on EBay if they are not a dramatic improvement.

I guess I'll try the Super Silvers next, then the Animas. I might get some rockabilly strings just for reference...but I'm not sure they are loud enough for totally acoustic.
I've been through the gut route 35 yrs ago and favor something smoother.

Some of the threads I've read have been pretty harsh on naive posters...which I am when it comes to DB, so thanks to all of you for being sincerely helpful!

badumba

TroyK · #8 05-19-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badumba

I figure I can always sell them on EBay if they are not a dramatic improvement.

Wrong! You can always sell them HERE if things don't work out.

But, I that it's a good move from where you are.

Seriously, though, expense aside, a 1/2 hour on a luthier's bench would probably help as much as a new set. There has to be a number of good ones in Austin, just have him install the strings and make simple adjustements, it'll pay off in spades and shouldn't cost you too much, plus you get to start a relationship with a luthier who might be there for you later when you want your Czech bass returned to former glory. Unless there is something seriously wrong with it, I doubt it's $3-4k.

Play on, my brother!

ERIC A · #9 05-19-2009, 06:52 PM

About 70% of my gigs are without an amp, and for me gut works (on a plywood bass). It sometimes seems (on stage) that they are not cutting through. But when I have had fellow bass players sit in , or they have been listening to me from out in the audience, we all have noticed that the bass gives off a big fat sound. I always heard that gut was louder from a distance, and it seems to be true (based on what I have heard).

farmerdude · #10 05-20-2009, 08:08 AM

+1 No sub for guts...they hit hard and punch the low end through the mix

Gearhead43 · #11 05-20-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerdude

+1 No sub for guts...they hit hard and punch the low end through the mix

+1 again, what gut lacks in harmonic content, it more than makes up for in huge fundamental. Great choice for Rootsy music if you can hang with the unique quirks.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #12 05-20-2009, 11:37 AM

Garbo. The mix on my old plywood is: Anima E, Garbo A and D, gut G. The tone is fat with fundamental and very little else. Very little tension but lots of meat to dig into.

I've got Animas on the big carved bass and the tone is different, more complex and not as loud. The plywood will get all the love over the next several weeks. It's good to keep them wanting more.

I believe Bobby knows the mix well.

tomshepp · #13 05-20-2009, 06:06 PM

I went from old Spiros to Super Silvers on an old Kay. The SS's got the bass boomin'. I'm happy with that, but the spiros seemed to have more punch.

wineaux · #14 05-21-2009, 12:44 PM

On my Kay, I've tried Super Silvers, which were too "floopy" for me, so I switched to LaBella 7710s. Liked them a lot, but I caught the gut bug. At the moment, I have plain guts on the D and G and Velvet Garbos on rhe E and A. It is definitely the loudest iteration. I still don't know if guts are my long-term choice, but I'll give 'em a couple of more months.

I have Weichs on my '34 Jaeger and have since the day I bought it two years ago. They are reliable and uniform -- none of the inconsistencies that come with guts. They just don't have that THUMP.

Tough call, but for what I play and how I play right now, if I had only one bass, I'd probably go with Spiro Weichs. Easier to bow than the LaBella's (which I do only sparingly), more consistent than the guts.

PaulKing · #15 05-28-2009, 10:00 AM

Spiro weichs miss that thump... check. They sound horrid slapped too, and too bright for rootsy music that needs the fundamental to punch through.
Supersilvers/Silverslaps slightly lack the clarity, purity and projection of steel... check. They still sound bloody good, but are a compromise for pizz.

But I have a third way, a string I haven't heard much about anywhere.
Just experimented with Innovation Solos tuned to orchestral pitch. It's a solo version of their orchestral string, a metal-wound braided-nylon core (presumably same as supersilver core).

Great dark thumpy tone, clarity and purity, chunky click sound, easy tension for the roots music players, but clear articulation for pizz.

I'm enjoying it a lot - plenty of scope for jazzy pizz, as well as good chunky roots sound and not bad click (though real gut worshippers will find it too bright).

One-take demo here, normal excuses apply...

**Francois Blais** · #16 05-28-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulKing

Just experimented with Innovation Solos tuned to orchestral pitch. It's a solo version of their orchestral string, a metal-wound braided-nylon core (presumably same as supersilver core).

This would be the 140BS set from this page:
http://www.innovationstrings.com/inncat.htm

François

badumba · #17 05-31-2009, 05:34 PM

I've been w/o computer for awhile. I can see by all the responses that there has been much individual experimentation. Thank you for sharing it all.

I guess I'll start with one set and go from there. I agree that time on a bench would be in order as TroyK recommended. Can anyone recommend one in Austin?

Thanks again for all your advice!

ctxbass · #18 05-31-2009, 07:07 PM

Stephen Wise is the man in Austin.

http://slwise.home.texas.net/

ctxbass · #19 05-31-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulKing

Just experimented with Innovation Solos tuned to orchestral pitch. It's a solo version of their orchestral string, a metal-wound braided-nylon core (presumably same as supersilver core).

Great dark thumpy tone, clarity and purity, chunky click sound, easy tension for the roots music players, but clear articulation for pizz.

I'm enjoying it a lot - plenty of scope for jazzy pizz, as well as good chunky roots sound and not bad click (though real gut worshippers will find it too bright).

One-take demo here, normal excuses apply...

Paul,
Would you say the tension at orchestra pitch is similar to Supersilvers or is it looser? I really like the Supersilvers on my Kay, but I could use a bit more pitch definition on the low end.

PaulKing · #20 06-01-2009, 12:10 AM

Yes I'd say it's around Supersilver level. Not as low as Silver slaps.
The pizz definition and clarity is much better. It is a very soft, plummy tone.
I've noticed an ongoing softening of the sound too, no surprise. I'll be interested to see if the sound becomes too dead too quickly. But a few weeks in, theyre sounding great.

I think I'll stick with Silverslaps on my Kay for now, but might give the Solos a trial. When I get paid.