Gut Feel - Thanks (I Hope) Papa T, J Kissel, & Others

[MT Spaces]

Based on these Nuggets Of Wisdom from several esteemed TalkBass string floozeys (Papa T, Jeff Kissel) and others 2 numerous to mention (SuperMan, Bobby King, Mike Ramsey, Calivox, Many Other TBers I've Missed, & All of Our DB Mentors That Played B4 Thomastik SC):

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

....I suggest using well broken in Spirocores on the E and A and Gamut gut plain strings in Med, Med+ or Heavy Gage for the D and G.
Depending on the tensions you prefer the Spiro Mittels and Medium+ Guts are nice middle of the road combination. Weich spiros with Medium Guts for the low tension approach .... The medium gage guts with a Spiro Mittel E and weich A is a nice combo .... Once they are broken in you'll have that old school sound love it or hate it .... Prepare to enter Hell.

AND ...

Originally Posted by JeffKissell

.... The Dlugolecki wound E & A are powerful strings for sure. They are the loudest most forceful strings I've had on my bass. The only strings close were the Dominants for volume, but nothing has come close for tone.

AND ...

Originally Posted by JeffKissell

... Damian's wound strings kick some butt for sure. Compared to the Spiros that came on my Cleveland the wound gut is more focused and a bit louder. Phat and punchy ....

Since nobody ever seems to want to sell their old guts to me, I feel compelled to fork out large dineros . I've been using Inovation SS G & D and Dom A & E .... very solid as far as tuning, feel, tension, life, and "gut-like" sound ... but ..... They Are Not Gut. As soon as Dan (Gamut) Larson gets done with The Holidays, I will be getting G & D Pistoy Varnished Mediums. Then .... I will get the "new & improved" integral wound (not over-wrap) nickel-silver A & E from Damien Dlugolecki. Seems like the best of both worlds. I want to send business to both of The Great American Sheep Intestine Magnates. I hope the strings match up.

I know that putting these strings on "Dottie" (my '40 Kay O-1) is a bit like buying diamond ear-rings and an emerald / ruby studded skirt for my Chester White Sow ... but I want to hear what guts sound like on a bass that was built B.S. (Before Spiro). Maybe they will fit the Cleve / LaScala I am dreamin' of later on down the road. No arco for me right now ... just those pizz sounds runnin' thru my head (bluegrass, country, old-time, and blues). Moore, Zinkan, Huskeys, Chance, Linneman, Tate .... I won't sound like them but maybe Dottie will have a chance to ... in the right hands. No diaper or college funds right now ... if it don't work out I still got the Spiro W's & M's, Dom's, SS's, and Perm's to choose from ... watch the Classie's for a big string sale in the near future. Anyone want to talk me out of it or have any caveats? Thanks!

[Uncletoad]

Sounds good to me. Be sure to document everything here.

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Sounds good to me. Be sure to document everything here.

Sure T ... Thanks for all of your TalkBass Intimate True String Confessions . As an apprentice, I appreciate your large dollar outlay for DB strings towards my (I'm-Not-Worthy) string education . At least that's what you must tell the IRS. BTW .... How's Vincent's College Fund doin'?

I've learned alot but I'll never be a Maneri Bro with large paws and a serious bass wankin' pull, authentic Italian girth, and you know ... (damn, where's that macrometer pecan gauge?). However I am thinking those gut strings will sound pretty good even in my rookie hands ... in fact I think it may be easier than what I've been playing. Expensive experiment.

I'll let you know .... it'll be a month, give er take. I'll get the G & D squared away first then bite off the A & E. I'm gonna have to get handy (once again) with that mini round file set I bought to get those phatty gut strings hunkered properly into the nut and bridge. I just don't think I want to travel 140 miles (one-way) in the winter to the Lady Luthier for a re-stringing. If I screw up real bad, I'll keep the strings and buy a new bass .

[Bobby King]

Bob,

That sounds like a "Merry Christmas" set of strings to me! If you haven't used real gut strings in the past, you owe it to yourself to try them. No doubt you'll love some things about them, but also miss things about the strings you're replacing. I'm curious about those Damian E&A strings.

Always go slow and gradually when windening slots at the bridge and nut with a file. Also, (you probably know this) you'll probably need to raise the action a bit with gut. Hopefully you've got adjusters? Remember, those strings will take days to stretch and stabalize a little, and even then they will always need extra tuning attention as they go flat and sharp with the temperature and humidity. After you put then on, play them a lot and keep tuning!

Good luck and give us a report.

[JeffKissell]

Hey Bob,
I'm glad to hear you're crashin' the party. I think that ol' Kay will sing with gut strings on her. One of my closest bass playing friends has a full set of unwound guts on his mid-fifties Kay. I'm curious about the pistoy strings with the different wind. Keep us posted on your progris and good luck.
-J

BTW, the string heights on my Cleveland currently are somewhere in the neighborhood of 11mm to 8/9mm from E to G.

[M Ramsey]

I speak for the others who have already responded and admit:

"We're all glad we could contribute to your madness."

You can read opinions here all day from both sides of the fence and you'll never gain the knowledge you'll get trying out the strings you see/hear others crowing about.

Guts may not be for you, but, then again, they may be.

[MT Spaces]

Thanks for the encouragement to participate in the insanity Guys . Yes Bobby, thanks for the wise words .... I will go slow installing the guts. It took me almost 2 hours (for what should be a 1/2 hour job) to fine-tune the bridge wing fit of my Solo Rev II pick-up. Sometimes my anal-retentive tendencies do pay off . Currently my Dom E is at 11 mm and my SS G is at 8 mm and I do have an adj bridge so I hope and think I'll be OK. Shoot .... I'll have to skip my annual January pilgrimmage to the River City Bluegrass Festival in Oregon so I can afford the guts . Sometimes there are tough choices in life .

I think I'll do a little semi-controlled "science fair" experiment and record my current synthetic strings while I play simple scales and root-5 combos (no thumb position or arco stuff since I suk at that right now) with the Edirol at a set distance (say 8'), position, recording volume, and room set-up. Then I'll do the same after the guts have settled in. Since it is sometimes tough to gauge sound, tone, and volume while standing next to the bass, at least I will be able to get some kind of comparison of the sound out front.

Fortunately, I always have my beater '64 Kay back-up with SS G and Spiro D, A, E to take to the tougher big-temp swing, outdoor, late nite jams if the guts on Dottie are just too tempermental.

Onward and upward ......

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

.... I will get the "new & improved" integral wound (not over-wrap) nickel-silver A & E from Damien Dlugolecki.

Oh No, I'm quoting myself ! I just got a PM from someone asking where I got the info about the new DD Nickel Silver A & E strings. I thought I read somewhere that these are not your typical over-wrapped strings but now I'm real confused. Jeff K, maybe Double D himself, Anybody .... Help .... can someone in the know clarify the construction and the nature of the "wound" of these new strings? Thanks in advance.

[MollyKay]

Ahhhh…join the madness!

I LOVE Gamut guts, I like the Labella guts, I’m okay with the Weich’s (good all around string), still like the Dom’s solo tuning on the King 43” string length, the Dom orchestra set are settling in nice on the 50’s Epi that just came off the bench Thursday. Those strings have a deep, dark voice with a loooong sustain on this bass…did I mention I love Gamut guts. Bobby just sent the Innovations SS…got them today…it will be awhile till they end up on the ’44 Kay basket case…report to come. And yes fella’s I still have a secret stash of those vintage gut strings to fall back on when the madness and $$$ becomes too much.

Bob…Merry Christmas…you are crossing to the dark side…if you don’t love those Gamut give me first shot at taken them off your hands.

[Mark Perna]

Good luck Bob. I think you'll love them. I did. My ONLY problem with them was it was hard to play fast, technical lines particularly in thumb position as compared to steel. The sound was magnificent, though.

I've got mine stored away for a future use that I hope isn't too long off.

mark

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

Ahhhh…join the madness!

did I mention I love Gamut guts.

I'm sorry, Molly..you have so many basses going off at once, I've forgotten... is this a full set of Gamuts?

I'm always this close to chucking it all and going all gut. They just feel so good. Don't sound bad either.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

I'm sorry, Molly..you have so many basses going off at once, I've forgotten... is this a full set of Gamuts?

I'm always this close to chucking it all and going all gut. They just feel so good. Don't sound bad either.

She has my old Medium set I think.

Very nice indeed. Not my cuppa.

[Marcus Johnson]

Thanks, 'toad. I play my student's bass with guts (all plain ) and it messes with my head. It makes no sense at all from a practical standpoint for me, but damn, it sounds nice. And this is middlin' guts on a ply bass. Great guts on my bass...who knows?

I've found no problem getting around guts quickly; I think I have a harder time with some of the hybrid strings I've tried. The tension is so low, I almost feel like I can breathe on 'em and they will speak.

My solo models have sort of moved from Trane to Billie and Dex, so maybe I'm getting ready for the jump.

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

.... I LOVE Gamut guts, I like the Labella guts, I’m okay with the Weich’s, still like the Dom’s solo tuning, the Dom orchestra set are settling in nice ..... Bobby just sent the Innovations SS…

Don't get me wrong .... the Weichs, Mittels, Doms, & SS's have all been good strings on my basses but I just don't want to go to that Last Big Bluegrass Jam In The Sky without at least tryin' out some premium gut strings .

Originally Posted by MollyKay

And yes fella’s I still have a secret stash of those vintage gut strings to fall back on ....

You Rascal ..... no fair ...... been holdin' out on us huh ?

Originally Posted by MollyKay

…if you don’t love those Gamut give me first shot at taken them off your hands.

Youbetcha .... you'll get first dibs if I can't figure them out .

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by calivox

Good luck Bob. I think you'll love them. I did. My ONLY problem with them was it was hard to play fast, technical lines particularly in thumb position as compared to steel. The sound was magnificent, though. I've got mine stored away for a future use that I hope isn't too long off.

Thanks Mark ... I'm looking forward to the guts. Not only can I not "play fast, technical lines particularly in thumb position" at this point in my "career" .... but, if I could and I did .... I would probably get booted out of the bluegrass band and jams !

[MollyKay]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

I'm sorry, Molly..you have so many basses going off at once, I've forgotten... is this a full set of Gamuts?

Yep...just like Toad said this is his set of Gamut medium that I purchased back in April. I am not too proud to buy slightly used strings, my old basses are just happy to be singing again. Clothes line would be better then some of the rotten old strings my basses came with

Switching back and forth between gut and steel makes me love the guts all the more...you can just dig in more. In bluegrass jamming it is all about the "thump". The Gamuts are $$$ but well worth the experience...Bob you will enjoy these string from here and beyond.

Toad...have you gotten a kick back yet for creating a fever for these Gamut strings...string lust...no cure for it!

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

Toad...have you gotten a kick back yet for creating a fever for these Gamut strings...string lust...no cure for it!

I wish.

I've got $1500 tied up in gut strings I'll bet and I'm currently strung up with Spirocores.

That's a serious sickness. I should be committed.

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

I've found no problem getting around guts quickly; I think I have a harder time with some of the hybrid strings I've tried. The tension is so low, I almost feel like I can breathe on 'em and they will speak.
.

Have you tried playing them with a band? They're easy as pie to play at home by yourself. They are INCREDIBLE in your room. Easy to play. Fat sound even in thumb position. Just try wailing in thumb position on guts with drums pounding away behind you though. All of a sudden things get VERY hard. They don't speak quickly and they have an enormous amount of horizontal play in them. I bogged down really quickly. I had to go back to Spiros for that stuff. There is a reason that Eddie and Ray and NHOP etc. went to Spiros and never looked back. Youtube some early Eddie with Bill Evans and watch him play gut strings (pre-1967 Eddie used guts). He's still doing Eddie stuff but he is working REALLY hard to do it and it doesn't come off as clean or as effortless as when he plays on steel.

My respect for Scott Lafaro and Charles Mingus jumped a thousand fold after playing guts for a while. What they did on the bandstand with gut strings was nothing short of jaw dropping.

Outside of soloing, I loved guts. Loud as hell acoustically, fat warm sound. Strong fundamental with a loud snap that cut right through a mix on the bandstand. It was heavenly. And unlike my experience with EPs, they amplified great. If I didn't trip all over myself soloing whenever ANYONE else was playing, I'd still be using them. I'd like to keep a bass strung with guts for gigs that don't require thumb position acrobatics but I don't get many calls for those gigs.

mark

[juuzek]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

Oh No, I'm quoting myself ! I just got a PM from someone asking where I got the info about the new DD Nickel Silver A & E strings. I thought I read somewhere that these are not your typical over-wrapped strings but now I'm real confused. Jeff K, maybe Double D himself, Anybody .... Help .... can someone in the know clarify the construction and the nature of the "wound" of these new strings? Thanks in advance.

Bob,
I could be mistaken, but I think the difference between the original DD E and A vrs the new E and A are in the make up of the winding itself. His website lists the original as being silver plated and the new E and A are listed as being made up of an NiAg silver alloy.
I emailed him with another question and he emailed me back within minutes. His service is amazing and his strings are beautiful. I highly reccomend his strings to all who are interested in taking the gut plunge.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by calivox

Have you tried playing them with a band? T
mark

Little bit. Some in the real early days, and then some recently... bad guts on worse rental basses. I just have to wonder what good ones would be like on my good bass.

To be honest, once someone counts off a tune, I pretty much forget about the bass and strings anyway, unless it falls apart.