Gut with Metal on the bottom

bassdogEmer · #1 07-26-2006, 10:36 AM

question for all out there old enough to remember or have first hand experience: what was the standard or quasy standard (everyone is diff. and always has been) back in the 1960's and 1970's. does anyone know what strings were used on the A and E strings backin the 60's?? I know metal strings were out then and from being around older bassists and spending a little time studying with Charlie Haden that the Golden Spiral's and red-o-rays were used pretty widely on the D and G strings. but what about the A and E??
I recently switched back to guts on the G and D and love it but can't find strings for the A and E I like. I have tried the labella all gut on the bottom - I dont want to use Velvet's although I might have to. the Weichs match pretty good tension wise but the are too sustainy - any thoughts?? Can any of the folks that have been around the scene for a while weigh in??

jallenbass · #2 07-26-2006, 12:47 PM

Try Innovation Super Silvers. They match D and G guts very well. Not very expensive either.

Peck_Time · #3 07-26-2006, 04:49 PM

+1 on the Innovation Super Silvers. I have them on my bass with gut G and D and they sound good.

I got my Supersilver E and A from Upton, unfortunately they don't sell individual strings.

ctxbass · #4 07-26-2006, 07:36 PM

I found that the Supersilver E&A maxed out in volume before the gut G&D, though if you play only amplified, you may never pull them that hard. Other than that, I think thay are a good match as far as tone and feel.

jmpiwonka · #5 07-26-2006, 07:41 PM

i like the regular flexocors next to the Oliv g and D.
medium tension A and a stark E.

jallenbass · #6 07-28-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctxbass

I found that the Supersilver E&A maxed out in volume before the gut G&D, though if you play only amplified, you may never pull them that hard. Other than that, I think thay are a good match as far as tone and feel.

On my 1950's Cleveland they're as strong as the guts. What kind of guts are you using and on what kind of bass?

simpleybass · #7 07-28-2006, 11:07 PM

Another vote for the Super Silvers. I've been playing about a year with a mixed set of La Bella pure gut on D&G and Super Silvers on E&A. Quite pleased...excellent match for tension, tone, and volume on my 46 Kay. THe Super Silvers match the pure gut WAY better than the silver wound gut La Bella E&A that came with the LaBella set.

ctxbass · #8 07-29-2006, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallenbass

On my 1950's Cleveland they're as strong as the guts. What kind of guts are you using and on what kind of bass?

I had them paired up with a Gamut plain D and a Chorda G. This was on a c.1960 carved German shop bass. I tried these strings shortly after they hit the market. It is possible that the "recipe" has been tweaked a bit since then.

FWIW, I had the full set on my '37 Kay last summer for outdoor gigs, and found them to be the best substitute for guts that I
have ever tried.

Alexi David · #9 07-29-2006, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simpleybass

THe Super Silvers match the pure gut WAY better than the silver wound gut La Bella E&A that came with the LaBella set.

Interesting. On a related note, the huge wrapped Chorda E & A's sounded like a Rickenbacker EB on my Bass! Strange match for plain D & G! I actually miss them now.........

CB3000 · #10 07-29-2006, 11:00 AM

i have been using dominant solo E and A (F# and B). they match up well with the goldentone D and G I use--i love the goldentones. i may try the weich solo e and a. but these are pretty dang good.

Whit Townsend · #11 07-29-2006, 11:05 AM

<<<<<<<does anyone know what strings were used on the A and E strings backin the 60's??>>>>>>>>

ok oldtimers, can someone answer the original question?

**Adrian Cho** · #12 08-01-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whit Townsend

<<<<<<<does anyone know what strings were used on the A and E strings backin the 60's??>>>>>>>>

ok oldtimers, can someone answer the original question?

I believe people were either using wound gut or steel if they had changed to steel. In other words I don't believe many people used mixed sets of steels and guts. I personally am using Permanents on A and (long) C right now with Gamut Lyon G and D. Works great.

bassdogEmer · #13 08-01-2006, 05:54 PM

Thanks Adrian, are the Gamuts varnished?? Where do I find them? How is the permanant tension and sustain wise comparable to the guts?? or the weichs rather which is what I am using. I played a gig last night and more hairs came off but I do love the way the strings feel and sound

KSB - Ken Smith · #14 08-01-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassdogEmer

question for all out there old enough to remember or have first hand experience: what was the standard or quasy standard (everyone is diff. and always has been) back in the 1960's and 1970's. does anyone know what strings were used on the A and E strings backin the 60's?? I know metal strings were out then and from being around older bassists and spending a little time studying with Charlie Haden that the Golden Spiral's and red-o-rays were used pretty widely on the D and G strings. but what about the A and E??
I recently switched back to guts on the G and D and love it but can't find strings for the A and E I like. I have tried the labella all gut on the bottom - I dont want to use Velvet's although I might have to. the Weichs match pretty good tension wise but the are too sustainy - any thoughts?? Can any of the folks that have been around the scene for a while weigh in??

I recall Golden Spiral G and D and Spirocore A and E. That was the mix for many Jazz and even latin players on the baby bass. Boy does this take me back in time.

**Adrian Cho** · #15 08-01-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassdogEmer

Thanks Adrian, are the Gamuts varnished?? Where do I find them? How is the permanant tension and sustain wise comparable to the guts?? or the weichs rather which is what I am using. I played a gig last night and more hairs came off but I do love the way the strings feel and sound

The varnished Gamuts are the best gut strings I've ever tried. I love them. Check out gamutstrings.com. Dan Larson makes these in Minnesota and he is a great source of information. They are available in a range of gauges. I'm using the Light gauge. The Permanents match very, very well. So well that it never really occurs to me anymore that I am using a mixed set but the Permanents are definitely much better in every way than when I used Eudoxas on the bottom two stirngs. Permanents have a strong gut-like fundamental and pizz and arco well. On the C extension string, the Spirocore is marginally louder but I don't like it for arco.

IMO, varnished gut strings are the only way to go. Anything else is a pain in the ass for maintenance, wear down quicker where you pizz them, and sound terrible with the bow. That's why I have not tried Damian Dluglolecki's strings. I asked him about varnished strings and he said he doesn't do them. With Dan Larson, you have a choice of gauges, construction (e.g. Lyon, Pistoy), varnished, unvarnished, etc. I told Dan what kind of playing I do and he recommended the Lyon vs Pistoy since the former is a bit more flexible for more pizz playing. Note that I never oil, sand, or do anything to my gut strings and they are just fine. The Gamuts are also clearer (especially in the higher register) than any of the other guts I tried. Of course they are still not that great compared to steel strings in the higher register (G string is practically usable up to about high D or Eb at a stretch) but they have THE SOUND.