Gut/Metal Pairings

kwd · #1 08-26-2005, 10:44 AM

There are number of popular pairings of gut with metal strings on the bottom. Some of the more popular include SuperFlex/gut, HeliOrchLt/gut, DomSolo/gut and Innov140H/gut. If more emphasis is placed on consistency of arco sound as the bow crosses from metal to gut, which of these wins?

Also, given that Jargar Dolce is heralded as the most gut-like metal string, has anyone tried pairing the Dolce E and A w/gut?

brianh · #2 08-26-2005, 01:40 PM

I have been using Pirastro Eudoxa's on the D and G and Spirocores on bottom. I've been having mixed feelings about the Eudoxa's playability, but all in all, I really like them. My bass seems to really sound great with this combination...

**Adrian Cho** · #3 08-26-2005, 04:44 PM

With unwound gut on G and D, I've tried Superflexibles, Helicore Hybrid Heavy, Dominant (A) and Spirocore (C ext), VariCor, and I'm currently using Permanents. For me the Permanents win out. Really nice pizz sound and great with the bow and the low end on the extension sounds great.

Paul Dwyer · #4 09-01-2005, 11:20 AM

Oliv D & G, Permanent E & A. Sounds phat.

AMJBASS · #5 09-01-2005, 11:29 AM

I am using Helicore Hybrid Light guage with plain G and D. They have a dark tone and match up very well in tension to the plain gut. I have tried Superflexibles, and I just can't get used to them.

**Adrian Cho** · #6 09-01-2005, 10:52 PM

Recently I started using Permanents on A and E in my quest to find strings that will match (unwound) gut G and D in tone and attack. In addition, I'm playing more and more arco so I'm looking for a string that bows well. And finally, with a C extension on the bass, the low end has to be good both pizz and arco. There's not much more disappointing than playing low C with the bow and not getting the thunderous pipe organ sound.

I like the Permanents because the sound is a reasonable match with the guts. It's got some warmth to it although the E (extension) is a bit hollow and metallic. They bow very well. In using them however, I've come to one conclusion about steel strings such as this and that is that the warmth comes from the use of dampening material but that also results in some cases in a loss of pizz volume. And right now I have to say that's one of the things that keeps annoying me about these strings. It's not a really noticeable loss but when I think about them compared to the Dominant A and Spirocore E I had on before, it's something that I can't help noticing. And I have to say that while the Dominant and Spiro weren't the best for arco, the pizz sustain is very attractive.

I recently ordered Jazzers and then cancelled the order because I thought I was happy with the Permanents. Apparently not...

Whatever I get there, I know I will have to make some concessions in one or more areas. It's just a matter of which ones.

**Francois Blais** · #7 09-02-2005, 06:21 AM

You may want to try Flexocor starks for the bottom strings.
You'll get bowability, warm tone, and the increased tension provides more sustain.

AMJBASS · #8 09-02-2005, 09:43 AM

My experience with Flexocore Starks wasn't particularly good. While they were outstanding as an orchestral string they still left a lot to be desired as a hybrid string. The pizz sustain is still far to short to be used effectively.

I am thinking about trying out Innovation 140B to see how they match up to gut.

kwd · #9 09-02-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

I am thinking about trying out Innovation 140B to see how they match up to gut.

Are you preferring the 140B over the 140H for a smoother arco sound? Do they give you a better match for the gut G/D?

I'd like to get the Innovations to match the G and D guts. I'm skeptical because there is a dearth of endorsement for what seems to be an ideal match. I have Heli-Orch E and A mediums in the drawer. Is it worth the do-re-mi to get the Innovations when I have the Helis?

Innovation fans, please weigh in. My credit card and the Lemur 800 number are summoning me.

Michael Glynn · #10 09-02-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

I recently ordered Jazzers and then cancelled the order because I thought I was happy with the Permanents. Apparently not...

Have you thought about maybe trying Flat-Chromesteel (the new ones) for the low strings? I haven't actually tried them on the low strings, but I've used Flat-Chromesteel D/G with Jazzer A/long E. The Flat-Chromesteels (D/G) bowed very nicely with a bright and clear, but not scratchy tone. Pizz sound was similar to Jazzer but slightly warmer and a little less growl and sustain. People had problems with the FCS E string in the past, but supposedly that has been fixed.

**Francois Blais** · #11 09-02-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

I am thinking about trying out Innovation 140B to see how they match up to gut.

In my experience, they are even more thumpy than Flexocors.
You may want to look at the 140H instead.

AMJBASS · #12 09-02-2005, 08:37 PM

I have played the 140H and I am more interested in trying the braided model. My bass responds better to low tension. I don't like Helicore Orchs on the bottom....they have a short sustain and an almost "synthetic" sounding fundamental.

**Francois Blais** · #13 09-03-2005, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

I have played the 140H and I am more interested in trying the braided model. My bass responds better to low tension.

AFAIK, both sets have the same tension. The Honey model uses a synthetic full-core and the Braided a synthetic braided core.
Only the core type changes for what I know.

Monte · #14 09-04-2005, 10:24 PM

After they settled in, the Superflexibles sound great pizz and arco with the Oliv D & G. Bright at first, but they really cut through and match the gut very well.

Of course from Obligatos to Velvet 180's to these, everything has sounded good on this bass, so take it fwiw.

I do like the power on the pizz of the Superflexible E & A more than anyof the others I've tried though.

AMJBASS · #15 09-05-2005, 07:37 AM

Monte, do you find the Superflexibles to project well? That is what I am having the most trouble with. The Helicores balance extremely well on my bass but I get the feeling they aren't as strong out front. I really didn't give the Superflexibles much time. Maybe they are worth putting on again...

**Adrian Cho** · #16 09-05-2005, 07:51 AM

I've decided to stay with the Permanents. Overall for matching gut, and pizz and arco response, I'm not sure I will find anything better. Either that or I'm just sick of trying out strings...

Monte · #17 09-05-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

Monte, do you find the Superflexibles to project well? That is what I am having the most trouble with. The Helicores balance extremely well on my bass but I get the feeling they aren't as strong out front. I really didn't give the Superflexibles much time. Maybe they are worth putting on again...

I found out they do yesterday when playing a brunch gig and had a bassist sit in. Although this guy doesn't dig in like I do, I could still hear the E & A very well when he did All Blues and a latin.

AMJBASS · #18 09-05-2005, 10:43 AM

That is good to hear. I think I may give them another shot. I liked them on the big Czech bass I had last year and they had a great recorded sound too. My setup has plain gut G and D so matching has been a bit difficult.

Bobby King · #19 09-13-2005, 10:19 PM

I've experimented with both the Innovation 140H and 140B sets. I've been using the 140B for the G and D and the 140H for the A and E. IMO, the 140H has a better pizz response on the low strings, but the 140B has a more gut-like sound on the uppers. The 140H bow just fine, the 140B bow even better. They get a wonderful arco tone and are very easy to play. I found the A and E on the 140B to be a little too thick and thuddy for pizz while the 140H is livelier without being too "wirey". The 140H D&G start getting a bit back in the "Obligato zone"

Actually, they're nicer but still a little too "sustainey" for me. Both sets are priced around $120 which I think is a good deal.

Recently I've been jonesing to put plain gut uppers back on, but I've never loved bowing on them.