Gut String help

[jfkbass]

I've done a lot of searching through the forums and am looking for a little help. I'm a bass player turned orchestrator. Most of my performing days are behind me except for the occassional jazz gigs (small bands, no amp). I love gut strings for their sound and the fact that they are "nicer" to my right hand. However, I can't bow them to save my life. At this point in my career, I'd like to do some more arco practicing. Does anyone have a good recommendation for me? I play Chorda G and D, Spiro A and E. I've never played strings such as Olivs or Eudoxa, are they more pleasant to bow than Chordas?

Any and all comments are appreciated. I'm completely open to all new info....I basically played Spiros for my entire life and haven't experimented with much else.

I play a Kolstein Fendt if that means anything.

jk

[AMJBASS]

Both the Olive and the Eudoxa are some of the nicest sounding strings out there. They both bow FAR better than plain gut. Olive are a bit darker, Eudoxa brighter. Both are great choices especially for the D and G.

[Bobby King]

Olives and Eudoxas are great strings. They're quite expensive though. You might also consider Evah Pirazzi or Obligato which are synthetic core. Both have a softer feel and bow very well.

[jfkbass]

Thanks guys. So the Evah Pirazzi and Obligato are steel on the outside, right?

What do the olives and Eudoxas feel like??

Forgive the ignorance, but what can I say, I'm ignorant.

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by jfkbass

So the Evah Pirazzi and Obligato are steel on the outside, right?

Yes, and so are Olivs and Eudoxas. (Well, "steel" being a generic term for "metal".) Evahs and Obligatos have synthetic cores, Olivs and Eudoxas have gut cores. To answer your second question, Olivs are quite fat and dark and may feel most like plain gut to you (at least in comparison to the other non-gut strings), while Eudoxas seem more like a steel string in comparison (although they still have that flexibility and *ping* of a gut string).

Any of these strings will be a million times "easier" to bow than Chordas, I think you'll find. If I were going from plain gut, I would make Olivs my first stop; you could try a G and a D, see how you like them, and if you don't dig 'em you'll have no trouble unloading the lightly-used strings here on TalkBass. Obligatos would be my second choice, then Eudoxas and then Evahs. (The Evah Pirazzis could definitely be a shock, from a tension/tightness standpoint, to someone coming from plain gut; but if you have your action low enough and you let them settle in for several months, they're quite comfortable to play on.)

[jfkbass]

Olivs it will be then. Thanks to everyone for their help. Becoming a string expert can be an expensive undertaking, I sure am glad that this forum is here to point me in the right direction..

jk

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

(The Evah Pirazzis could definitely be a shock, from a tension/tightness standpoint, to someone coming from plain gut; but if you have your action low enough and you let them settle in for several months, they're quite comfortable to play on.)

Sorry for the slight hijack. I just put on a set of Evahs and coming from Dominants, they do feel a bit stiff. Not a shock coming from the Doms but I'm curious. In your experience, do the Evahs soften up a bit? So far, I like them.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by drurb

. In your experience, do the Evahs soften up a bit?

Oh yeah. They softened up a lot on my bass.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Oh yeah. They softened up a lot on my bass.

Thanks!

[ablumley]

Originally Posted by jfkbass

I've done a lot of searching through the forums and am looking for a little help. I'm a bass player turned orchestrator. Most of my performing days are behind me except for the occassional jazz gigs (small bands, no amp). I love gut strings for their sound and the fact that they are "nicer" to my right hand. However, I can't bow them to save my life. At this point in my career, I'd like to do some more arco practicing. Does anyone have a good recommendation for me? I play Chorda G and D, Spiro A and E. I've never played strings such as Olivs or Eudoxa, are they more pleasant to bow than Chordas?

Any and all comments are appreciated. I'm completely open to all new info....I basically played Spiros for my entire life and haven't experimented with much else.

I play a Kolstein Fendt if that means anything.

jk

Hello JK,

I don't think you need to abandon the chordas if you want to work with the bow. Try using black bow hair if you've got white hair. Try different rosins (cello, violin grades included). Adjust your technique. There are ways to make it work. It's very possible to produce a beautiful arco sound with plain gut strings.

Aaron

[drurb]

Originally Posted by ablumley

It's very possible to produce a beautiful arco sound with plain gut strings.

Indeed, didn't they do that a few hundred years ago?

[Jake deVilliers]

Well DRUBBER, I wasn't there so I'll have to take your word for it!

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Well DRUBBER, I wasn't there so I'll have to take your word for it!

Fortunately, none of us had to be there. You know, there's this thing called the historical record.

Here's a couple of pics I took in the antique musical instrument museum in Vienna. They're basses from the 16th century, IIRC. Those ain't steel strings!

[LouisF]

I'm fascinated by the Chorda discussion - I think I read in another thread that European orchestras tend to use them (maybe "period" orchestras like the Age of Enlightenment etc). And some people seem to think they are an excellent choice for Baroque playing - which would seem to impy, low tension and fast, light bowing.

But the general response here and in other posts is that they are a pizz string and (perhaps) over-priced at that?

Anyone??

louis

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by LouisF

I'm fascinated by the Chorda discussion - I think I read in another thread that European orchestras tend to use them (maybe "period" orchestras like the Age of Enlightenment etc). And some people seem to think they are an excellent choice for Baroque playing - which would seem to impy, low tension and fast, light bowing.

But the general response here and in other posts is that they are a pizz string and (perhaps) over-priced at that?

Anyone??

louis

lol, chorda's aren't exactly "authentic" strings for period playing...If you're serious about Baroque music you'll use unwound gut D+G, perhaps high twist Aquila's or Dlugolecki's...Wrapped A and E.

oliv...eudoxa...obligato + evah's especially!! ain't even close to real guts

[Jake deVilliers]

Dr Bernstein, you've posted those pictures before, but I still can't hear what they sounded like "a few hundred years ago".

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Dr Bernstein, you've posted those pictures before, but I still can't hear what they sounded like "a few hundred years ago".

Well, JakedeVillain, aren't you cute! You've shown that you can use the internet. My identity has actually never been a secret. It was only hidden from those who couldn't figure it out. You made it clear long ago that you identified me. You read the Courant article and put two and two together. You get a gold star. A regular Dick Tracy you are. I just figured you'd have enough class not to do what you just did, but no matter.

With regard to the strings, yeah, I figured you'd say something like that. Ah, such limited thinking. The composition and methods of producing those old gut strings are still known. Their characteristics can be experienced to this day when played on period instruments. So, you can essentially hear how well such strings work for arco. In addition, you can hear modern gut strings being used for arco and that was the point that was raised. You don't need a time machine. Go back to your search engine and take a listen.

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

oliv...eudoxa...ain't even close to real guts

Olivs and Eudoxas are gut strings, as real as it gets. Sure, there are big differences between plain gut (high or low twist), varnished gut (like Chordas or Gamuts if you ask for it), Tynex-wrapped gut (like Golden Spirals, Labella Goldentones, Pirastro Pizzicatos, or Red-O-Rays), metal-wrapped gut (like Olivs, Eudoxas, and the E/A strings of most "plain gut" sets), and unknown-Space-Age-material-wrapped gut (like Gerold Gensslers strings, of which I've tried two very different sets). But I feel like the gut vibe carries through, in varying degrees, in all of these types of strings; otherwise, why would we bother with the hassle?

It's true, though: I have to laugh when people describe Obligatos or Evahs or Dominants or Jargars or Velvets (except Garbo) as "gut-like."

[Bobby King]

If anyone can post a link to audio of good arco bass being played on gut I'd like to have a listen. (I'm not talking about the jazz players, I've heard PC and the like and I think the tone is pretty awful).

I have heard old recordings of cellist Pablo Casals playing on what must be gut, but I must say that I prefer the sound of more modern players on steel strings. Maybe this is just a matter of what I've become accustomed to. For me personally, bowing on gut is very difficult from a technique point of view, and even then I don't care for the tone.
But I'd still like to hear someone doing it well.

[Jeremy Allen]

Maybe this will work, if you have a RealAudio player (I don't, so I didn't hear any of this stuff).