Gut strings for orchestral needs

[dfp]

hey Ken, i still have the La Bella guts you tried briefly and then gave away (to me). i still love them and get lots of compliments from local jazz players, including a former Jazz Messenger....

sorry to not be able to add much to your orchestra gut string study but here are the diameters of the La Bella guts you gave me:

G=.083"
D=.100"
A=.105"
E=.134"

i think they're a good set, even sounding and comfortable feeling, and bowing ok once i got used to them (not orchestral, sorry!). i found Chordas to be un-even, the D and E being too thick...

[Barcza]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

Have you ever heard an old recording of the Berlin Phil with Furtwaengler? ......Well, massive bass. The same with an old recording of Shostakovitch 5 with New York Phil in the 60's, just massive.

Now, they were both using gut strings at the time, and they didn't do close miking. I have tried in my lifetime some gut strings on my 5 string bass (LaBella, Pirastro (I think Eudoxa medium), NoName, etc...) and the sound has always been extremely disappointing: no attack, soft, scratchy.

There are many famous violinists, violists and cellists that use nothing but gut (flat wound for the most part). However there seems to be almost no serious bass player using them (to my knowledge). I seem to remember that maybe Tim Cobb or Tim Pitts (sorry) used gut, but I am really not sure.

Any info? experiences? comments?

I'm pretty shure nobody use gut strings in the orchestras here in Europe today, in the German and Austrian orchestras, the big, loud, powerful tone are inportant consideration, I had lessions with Esko Laine who a member of the Berlin Phillharmonic, he play on a big, longscale, high action 5 string bass in the orchestra and hi play extreamly loud forte. Klauss Stoll ( pricipal of Berlin Philharmonic) use Pirastro Permanent strings.

[Bruce Lindfield]

That's what I've been saying throughout - I've been in the audience for the Berlin Phil many times at concert halls in London and the bass section sound is truly awesome - but I know from reading articles in UK magazines that they don't use gut strings.

The other thing is that recording technology has come on in leaps and bounds since the 60s and the more recent CDs are incredibly clear - people have nostalgia for the great conductors, like Furtwangler and Toscanini and there's no doubt their interpretations are worth listening to - but for pure sound of the orchestra - the Berlin Phil of today in the concert hall or recordings in side to side comparisons is so much richer and more focused.

Of course what you like is subjective - but for sheer technical achievement, I don't think you can beat today's great orchestras - and I suppose it is because they have all heard what they are up against and will not let their standards slip below....?

[Barcza]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

That's what I've been saying throughout - I've been in the audience for the Berlin Phil many times at concert halls in London and the bass section sound is truly awesome - but I know from reading articles in UK magazines that they don't use gut strings.

The other thing is that recording technology has come on in leaps and bounds since the 60s and the more recent CDs are incredibly clear - people have nostalgia for the great conductors, like Furtwangler and Toscanini and there's no doubt their interpretations are worth listening to - but for pure sound of the orchestra - the Berlin Phil of today in the concert hall or recordings in side to side comparisons is so much richer and more focused.

Of course what you like is subjective - but for sheer technical achievement, I don't think you can beat today's great orchestras - and I suppose it is because they have all heard what they are up against and will not let their standards slip below....?

I tottaly agree! + In a Symphony orchestra the most inportant is the conformation, so not a good idea to use gut strings, while the rest bassists use steel strings. But if you like to get warm sound, the Pirastro Original Flat-Chrome is good, and fit the orchestral needs.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Barcza

I tottaly agree! + In a Symphony orchestra the most inportant is the conformation, so not a good idea to use gut strings, while the rest bassists use steel strings. But if you like to get warm sound, the Pirastro Original Flat-Chrome is good, and fit the orchestral needs.

The Orig. Flat Chrome used to be called 'Eudoxa - 'Flat Chrome Wound'. They also had the Gut core Eudoxas then as well. We called them FCs 'Eudoxa Steels' to distinguish them from the Gut core variety. I actually have an original Eudoxa Steel (FC) E/C on one of my Basses that someone had left over from a few decades ago. They have the same Silk colors at the ball ends but the have a thin wire wrapped around the silk that goes in the tuners above. It's a 'fat' sounding string if you ask me with plenty of low end spread and focus.

Still, the silver round wound Gut low strings have a wider spread than even these Eudoxa Flat Chromes do.

[Barcza]

Everybody like different strings and different sound, I just say most of the players in Berlin Philharmonic uses steel strings. The Eudoxa (wound gut core string) has very different sound, volume and feel than Flat-Chrome (rope core steel string). The Eudoxa is extreamly priced string.

[gor-gy]

I'm pretty shure nobody use gut strings in the orchestras here in Europe today

hello, I know lot of people in europe who play with wound gut string like eudoxa or oliv ( I think the whole set oliv is better for arco) or with plain gut string like Chorda ( the best gut) , Götz or kuerscher....

I actually have an original Eudoxa Steel (FC) E/C on one of my Basses that someone had left over from a few decades ago

I have the old version with gut core from the 80's , complete round wound gut string set, imagine a Chorda set with the same wound on the D & G

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by gor-gy

hello, I know lot of people in europe who play with wound gut string like eudoxa or oliv ( I think the whole set oliv is better for arco) or with plain gut string like Chorda ( the best gut) , Götz or kuerscher....

Which Orchestras ?

[Pete G]

Bill Bentgen told me that I should take the few pennies left in my retirement accounts, cash them in, and invest in the best orchestral gut strings I could find.

Trouble is, I haven't played on guts since the first Nixon administration.

I've been reading every thread I can find on this board regarding gut for orchestral playing.

Here's what I conclude, unless someone here changes my mind:

I'm not brave enough to go straight to bowing plain gut, but I like what some folks here are saying about Gerold Glessner's wrapped-gut orchestral strings. Even if I were ready to go plain gut, I need a long C string, and Herr Glessner appears to be the only "artisanal" gut string maker who will make a long C.

If I like these, I may go to plain gut on the next set.

What am I missing?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.