I can probably predict the answer but...

[Steve Boisen]

Like a lot of people I went on a quest years ago for a suitable "hybrid" string. I tried several types (Helicore, Superflexible, Coreli) but when I installed my first set of Obligatos I stopped looking. I was so pleased with the sound and feel of these strings that I wrote Pirastro a nice letter which they subsequently used on their website (and they sent me free strings ). I would read these forums from time to time and think how lucky I was that my days of searching for the right double bass string were behind me. Until...

The Obligatos just aren't the right string for my new bass. They still sound great but they are just too "mushy", especially the E and A. The "roll" that others talked about is suddenly an issue for the first time. I attribute this to my new bass' shorter string length, but I'm thinking I need something similar to the Obligatos but with a bit more tension. I predict the #1 answer will be Evah Pirrazi's, but I thought I'd inquire here to see if there were other suggestions that I did not consider. Also, if I do go with the Evah's should I choose the weich gauge or would those still be too loose?

- Steve

[geoffbassist]

Hi Steve,
I would recommend Evah weichs and prefer them to regular for jazz. They have a tiny bit more growl to my ears. I really like their gage. Not too thin IMO.
That said the regular do also a great job.

Good luck.

[Matt Ides]

I went from Obligatos to EPs. They are definitely a more focused sound, but also are much darker string IME. They work great on my newish bass which is pretty bright.

Worst case get them used here and give them a whirl.

[TroyK]

If you do Evahs, weichs for sure. They are sonically much different strings, though. You might love them, but may also find that you're not hearing what you need.

Consider putting a Jazzer E/A on with your Obligato D/G. Solve the rolling and bring a lot more clarity. I may have an old pair, PM me if you'd like to try them.

You might also check out Innovation threads, if you're committed to synthetic core strings.

[DoubleMIDI]

What about Dominants?

The Innovations 140B (and probably also 140H) E and A need some time to open up. I accelerated this on my 140B E and A by bending them a bit more than usual but never sharp. That helped a lot.
Both are not too brilliant but a bit brighter than Evahs in different ways. The 140H has more midrange and less highs with some pizz punch. The 140B is softer not as much mids as 140H but more highs, sounds more modern. The 140H sounds more towards gut. Tension is lower than Obligato, Dominant, Evah regular or weich.

But I think you shoul consider the Dominants. Just take care of the strings on the pegs to avoid breakage.

The G/D Obligato A/E Jazzer (or Spiro) is not a bad idea if you like the higher Obligatos.

[Steve Boisen]

Originally Posted by DoubleMIDI

What about Dominants?

I've always been confused about these strings. I've read that they are high tension but I have heard just the opposite as well. I've also heard mixed things about the arco response.

- Steve

[Marcus Johnson]

Evah Weichs. They feel about like Spiro Mittels in terms of tension. No mush at all on my bass.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Steve Boisen

I've always been confused about these strings. I've read that they are high tension but I have heard just the opposite as well.

That's part of their charm. In terms of tension, they are between spiro Weich and Mittel:

Originally Posted by tension chart

Thomastic weich -
G - 60.6
D - 61.7
A - 63.9
E - 66.1

Thomastik Dominant
G - 63.9
D - 63.9
A - 66.1
E - 66.1

Thomastik Mittel
G - 67.2
D - 68.3
A - 70.5
E - 72.8

And they are thicker than all spiros except the Starks (which they are in the ballpark of):

Originally Posted by TB Wiki

Thomastik Spirocore
Solo
.044 .061 .076 .103
Weich
.046 .063 .079 .107
Medium
.052 .070 .085 .111
Stark
.054 .065 .090 .117

Thomastik Dominant
.055 .065 .085 .113

But what sets them apart, IMO, is their stiffness combined with the smoothness of the wrap on the outside. When you take one out of the package and unwind it from the circular shape it's wound into, a Dominant will stretch out and become pretty much a straight line on its own. This (IMO) makes them feel like they have more tension than they do once you string them up. The wrap, OTOH, is incredibly smooth, making them feel soft under the fingertips. They are probably closer to spiros than anything else, but have their own vibe that I haven't quite found anywhere else.

I've also heard mixed things about the arco response.

All strings have mixed arco response when I'm holding the bow. Most people who are actually practicing arco players who play my bass with a bow report that they bow slightly better (i.e. - more easily) than spirocores, but can still stand up and bark if you ask them to. More of a string for solo playing than for section work.

[Steve Boisen]

Tonight I decided to install a Spirocore mittel E and A to get an idea of how my bass will play with higher tension strings, but much to my surprise it didn't feel much different. I wound up putting the Obligatos back on because I didn't care for the way Spirocores sounded on this bass.

I'm starting to think that it's more a matter of me getting used to my new bass as opposed to finding a different string.

- Steve

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I liked the Obligatos on my bass when I first got it. They sounded great in my living room. On the first gig, though, they sounded mushy and got buried in any texture that rose above a mezzo piano. I replaced them with spiros, and the next gig the bass spoke. It takes a lot of experimenting - just make sure that enough of that happens in context! It's hard to tell much when they're no in a mix.

[fdeck]

Granted, it's horses for courses. My bass has 41" mensure, and is presently strung with Spiro Mitts on E and A, and Obli's on D and G. The string heights range from 6 to 8.5 mm, top to bottom.

The bass came with Obli's, but I felt compelled to try the widely recommended Mitts, and installed a set. Even after a reasonable break-in period, I found them to be too scratchy under the bow, and they were also hurting my right hand when playing pizz. But E and A were not a problem. So I simply put the Obli's back on D and G. It's been almost 2 years, and the Obli's may be due for replacement.

On my bass, the Spiro's and Obli's were surprisingly similar in both tone and volume when playing pizz. It's possible that a small amount of "roll" is why the Obli's are more comfortable to play. There was much more roll on E and A. Most of my gig work is amplified, but I have gotten through a small number of un-amplified gigs in recent months.

Question for the guru's: Is it possible that just changing out the E and A will have enough effect on the loading of the top table, that it will change the tone of the existing D and G strings?

As for trying out the Spiro's, did you give them a reasonable break-in period? They start out really twangy, but the worst of it goes away after a few days.

[Phil Rowan]

Someone else in a different thread suggested Spiro Mit E and A with D'addario Zyex as the D and G. Having checked out the Zyex for a little bit (and this is just my .02 cents) I feel like this might be a pretty happening combination (the Zyex will probably seem bright at first but I thought they were great once broken in (I had the advantage that the A, D and G Zyex I used had been well used too.. oh crap, parenthesis within parenthesis) .. they have this transparent, clear type tone that mixes in a decent amount of hybrid-like gut-ness).

[Steve Boisen]

Originally Posted by fdeck

As for trying out the Spiro's, did you give them a reasonable break-in period? They start out really twangy, but the worst of it goes away after a few days.

Not really. I've got some Vivaldi to play in a few weeks

- Steve

[Phil Rowan]

Steve, there's a set of Evah Vikes in the TB classifieds. They'd probably work well enough for that Vivaldi.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

Evah Vikes

Jeez Phil.. spell it like that, as a die hard Packers fan... I can't ever buy them again.

[Phil Rowan]

Aw man, sorry Marcus.. I was just trying to be a little phonetic in with the spelling (the football reference was a coincidence, I swear!).

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by fdeck

...
Question for the guru's: Is it possible that just changing out the E and A will have enough effect on the loading of the top table, that it will change the tone of the existing D and G strings?
...

Yes. Absolutely, without a single doubt in my mind.

My afterlengths are tuned. When things are just right, they are a 10th and some number of octaves above the open strings. When they are not, the bass doesn't really work the same way. If I dramatically change string gauges or tensions, I take it Jake once I'm settled in and he adjusts the tailpiece wire until the bass is back in phase.

I've swapped for example a D and G and the A string has gone out of phase (the one that was in tune earlier.) Then I've changed the D and the A's afterlengh came back into tune, etc. Think about it, the tension on the top is a product of each string's tension collectively (and angle, mensure, other setup stuff)

[Steve Boisen]

We'll, I've gone through everything in my string drawer which includes:

Pirastro Obligato
Thomastik Spirocore
Thomastik Superflexible
Thomastik Dominant (E & A)
D'Addario Helicore Pizzicato (D & G)
Red-O-Ray gut (D & G)

My conclusion:

1) The Obligatos still work best, despite the loose E & A
2) None of the steel strings had a quality arco sound
3) Gut strings are fun and a bit scary
4) Installing double bass strings is tiring

- Steve

[Matt Ides]

I know some folks have settled on the Obligatos on top with Spiros on the bottom.

[Steve Boisen]

I'm leaving the Superflexibles on for now. My Obligatos have been on and off the bass so many times I'm afraid to re-install them. I think I might have liked the Dominants if they had been newer. The arco was very robust but the E was dead for pizz playing.

- Steve