i know this is an old question BUT,,,,,,

[lefty5]

is there a string that has the same punch as thomastik spirocore (S42) but has a softer touch on the fret board?
the wife is complaining about the burn of her fingers after
a long set and her kay C-1 is due a new set of strings. i found
one the other day with one of the wraps separating about 4 inches above the bridge.
she has been using spirocores for about 5 years , these strings are about 6 or 7 years old. i checked the other day and
noticed that all of them have really went up since i bought the last set. so if i have to invest 200 or 300 dollars in a set of strings i may try something a littel softer on the fret board,, if there is anything out there like that.

oh i for got to put in the particulars: plays bluegrass,1957 kay C-1, timeless timber bridge,
david gage pick up system (when we use it) most of the time we just let the condenser pick
it up.


any opinions or info would be much appreciated.

thanks again
terry m

[drurb]

On a DB, it's a fingerboard (no frets to be found). Not sure what you mean by a softer touch on the board. Do you mean on the hands? If so, check the threads here on:

1) Thomastik Dominants
2) Pirastro Obligatos (less punch than Spiros)
3) Evah Pirazzi weichs

There's a ton of discussion about these strings here. Pull up a chair.

[salcott]

A set of new Spiros will be nice and smooth. If she's using Mittels, try Weich for a softer feel but with a likely loss of some volume. I'd stick with whatever's on the bass now.
As far as expense, strings cost what they cost; 6-7 years use sounds like you got your money's worth.
In my experience, Obligatos sound great in the living room and (unamped) crap out on the gig.
If you're really wanting to try something new, I'd go for the EP Weichs.

[BeowulfKingsley]

The Evah Pirazzi Solos are lower tension as well and sound great (and loud) on my 40s C-1.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by salcott

In my experience, Obligatos sound great in the living room and (unamped) crap out on the gig.

That's my experience as well. That's why I mentioned them with a disclaimer. Also, while the EP weich ar reported by many to be "softer" it's also the case that many experience a characteristic stiffness at the front end of a pizz.'ed note. That seems to be part of what gives them their nice punch. On my bass, to my hands, WP weichs are actually more fatiguing than Spiros. YMMV.

I really love Thomastic Dominants and would probably have them on my bass now were it not for the breakage issues. You have to make sure that none of the metal part of the string past the silk winds onto the tuning peg. That seems to be especially true of the G-string. Given the "mirror image" arrangement of the tuners on my bass (with the G tuner being closest to the nut), that condition can't be fulfilled.

[martinc]

Spirocore Weichs. They sound good on Kays and are easy to play because of lower tension.....plus when they settle in you get a solid sound. And they last...unlike Obligato's.
There are lots of synthetic strings around eg Innovations, Zyex, Evah Pirazzi....but in my experience the Weichs are a better all-round string for playablity and sound.

[drurb]

Indeed, Spiro weichs sound like a fine idea. I should have included them on my list but was biased by the desire for the same punch as Spiros (which Oblis clearly don't have). My old Kay C-1 did, indeed, seem to prefer lower tension strings. They may be just the ticket!

[iiipopes]

Then the next question is which side of the ticket to punch: the S42 4/4 110 cm set or the 3885 3/4 106 cm set. Being a Kay with its full 42 inch scale, either would be fine, with the S42 having marginally even less tension at the shorter @107cm scale than the 3885 set stretched out a tad longer.

[martinc]

Originally Posted by iiipopes

Then the next question is which side of the ticket to punch: the S42 4/4 110 cm set or the 3885 3/4 106 cm set. Being a Kay with its full 42 inch scale, either would be fine, with the S42 having marginally even less tension at the shorter @107cm scale than the 3885 set stretched out a tad longer.

iiipopes:
The only string in the 3/4 Weich set that has more tension than the 4/4 set is the G..and the difference (1lb) is small. The rest of the 4/4 Weich set is a couple of pounds or so more on each string than the 3/4 set.
I have always used the 3/4 set. It's designed for a 42" scale. Why wrap any more of the end around the tuner post than you need to? There's no stretching out to worry about.
The Weichs will zing for about three weeks if you play regularly...but after that they provide a nice, solid sound and a nice feel on both hands. My favourite tension.

[lefty5]

thanks guys ,, i am not a double bass expert by no means, i play banjo mainly and
some guitar, so that will explain alot of my lack of smarts on this subject.

thanks again
terry m

[Jaromir]

In my experience the 4/4 Weichs (and Mittels) sound and especially feel better. But it may differ on different basses...

[martinc]

Originally Posted by Jaromir

In my experience the 4/4 Weichs (and Mittels) sound and especially feel better. But it may differ on different basses...

Jaromir:

I ordered the wrong Weich once and got the 110 cm. I don't seem to remember it being any different.
The scale length is still the same.....42" from the point of contact at the nut to the point of contact at the bridge, so the total length of the string should not make any difference. And the unused portion of the string is wrapped around the tuner post.
Unless the construction of the string is different on the 4/4 length.
But...these are basses so I guess all kinds of unexplainable weird and wonderful things could happen.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by martinc

Unless the construction of the string is different on the 4/4 length.

It is. Otherwise, as you suggested, the only difference would be what's wrapped around the tuning peg.

Originally Posted by martinc

iiipopes:
The only string in the 3/4 Weich set that has more tension than the 4/4 set is the G..and the difference (1lb) is small. The rest of the 4/4 Weich set is a couple of pounds or so more on each string than the 3/4 set.
I have always used the 3/4 set. It's designed for a 42" scale. Why wrap any more of the end around the tuner post than you need to? There's no stretching out to worry about.

I believe you are referring to the tensions listed by Thomastik for each type of strings assuming a different vibrating length for each.

Let's take a look. Here is one of the most useful posts on strings I've ever seen:

Originally Posted by Rodger Bryan

...Here is a good explanation of the basics. The second link nails the perception of tension as it relates to compliance.

http://liutaiomottola.com/formulae/tension.htm
http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm

I like a good debate when compelling evidence can be presented. On the other hand, I'm curious to see if I would like the switch...
peace,
R

I used one of the calculators included in the first link. The data I entered came from the Thomastik site. According to those data, for the E string:

Set____________Assumed Length (in)_____________ Tension (lbs)
3885............................. 41.3.............................................. ......72.8
.S42...............................43.3........... .........................................75

Now, assuming the vibrating frequency of the E to be 41 Hz (close enough, folks) and using the calculator in the first link, the unit weights (in lbs per linear inch) of the two E strings would be:

3885 E: 0.002451
S42 E: 0.0023

If we assume that we are installing the S42 E string onto the 41.3" vibrating length, then the tension drops to 68.3 lbs. The routine practice of installing the S42 set on a "3/4" bass results in slightly lower tension than if one installs the 3885 set.

Here are the calculations for the G string (fundamental: 98 Hz):
Set____________Assumed Length (in)_____________ Tension (lbs)
3885............................. 41.3.............................................. ..... 67.2
.S42...............................43.3........... ........................................66.1

Lbs per linear inch:
3885 G: 0.0003965
S42 G: 0.0003545

Tension with S42 G installed on 41.3" vibrating length: 60.1 lbs.

[martinc]

Doc:
I knew I should have kept that string. Now I know why!

[lefty5]

well she had a show last nite with her band and i helped the sound man on the board and really dialed in her bass. it was in an old theater where the acoustics were perfect. i sat there and listened closely to her bass and it really sounds superb with the spirocore S42s
on it. it almost sounds like an old 4/4 jazz style bass. very deep and focused big tone about it. i am just worried about goin to a lighter gauge string will take away from its sound. i use it here at the house for recording with demo tracks or if someone comes in and wants an upright on the CD. it records like a champ.
i guess the question is ,, will it be worth taking a chance on the tone sacrifice for comfort to go to the lite (weich) gauge strings? she dosen't do slap bass (very rare)
and her right hand is like a clock as far as attack goes. she dosen't vary much on volume,
pretty even all the way around.
they did a 2 hour show and the last set had 6 song in B and 2 in C. when we got in the truck she showed me 2 blisters that had started coming up. first thing i hear is " I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS FOR A 2 HOUR SHOW". to which i returned,,
well if you practiced more you fingers would toughen up. that didn't seem to go over well. so you kinda see what i am looking at here,, LOL..................
you hate to put 200 bucks in some strings and 2 weeks later you notice how bad your
bass sounds.
its a vicious circle we troll in!!!!! sorry just had to vent a little



terry m

[martinc]

Lefty5 wrote:
"i am just worried about goin to a lighter gauge string will take away from its sound."

There are some samples of Spiro Weichs somewhere on this string thread...check it out. I think you will find that the Weichs are a solid -sounding string with perhaps less zing after they wear in that the Spiro Mittles (Orchestra) that your lady's bass has on it.
The Mittles are hard on the hands because of the higher tension...that's why I quit using them. And I have a big and strong left hand.
I have found that Weichs sound good on most basses...one of the very few strings that are like this. They are a LOT more than a wimpy version of the Mittles. They also mix well (E and A) with D and G gut...which should tell you that they are not a weak string.
If you want volume and punch in a non- steel string, try the Velvet Anima's. They are excellent. The D'Addario Zyex Light also get good reviews.
One more thing...I have found that the Mittel E is one of the best sounding E strings available......no matter what the other strings are. They last for years.Try a Weich A (or an A and D) with it for a month to get an idea of how the Weich sounds. You can always sell them here on TB if she doesn't like them.
I am using a Mittel E, Weich A and Animas on the D and G as an experiment. Lots of punch, volume and easy on the hands so far!

[drurb]

I'm really wondering whether the switch from mittels to weichs will substantially decrease the formation of blisters. It really depends on what is the root of the problem.

I'm always impressed with how "YMMV" applies with strings. There are huge interactions among strings, basses, and players. For example, I love the sound of Evah weichs. After my right-hand injury, I switched to Spiros. I find them far less fatiguing than the Evahs. It's not just about tension. It's about the compliance of the string too. Still, others find the Evah weichs easier on the hands than Spiros. Go figure. Actually, I can't recall any string I've used that was ever a problem for my left hand. It's always the right hand that would end up complaining.

I did try out a set of Spiro weichs, albeit not on my bass. I found them to be too soft and too far toward the "wimpy" end of the scale. Clearly, many others don't share my experience. That doesn't make any of us wrong-- it's those interactions.

[fdeck]

I've had different experiences with Spiro's on different basses. I never had a problem with Spiro Mitts on my old Kay. Then I got a new carved bass. It came with Obli's on it, and I had no problem with the tone, but felt compelled to "calibrate" the bass with a set of Spiro Mitts. And I needed spares anyway, and bought a new set via the TB classifieds.

Apart from sounding terrible under the bow, I noticed that the Mitts were hurting my right hand when playing pizz. Never had that problem with the Kay. I think that I was motivated to practice more and play harder on the new bass.

I put the Obli's back on G and D, and the problems went away with both arco and pizz. I speculate that the ability of the Obli's to "roll" slightly under my fingers makes them a bit more comfortable. This must be a strange bass, because I'm one of the few people who doesn't notice much of an improvement in pizz tone from Spiro's. Definitely a horses for courses thing.

A and E don't seem to be a problem, and I left them on because Spiro's are reported to last a lot longer than Obli's. If I have to replace the Obli's periodically, I'd rather replace 2 strings than 4.

My experience and advice on blisters is: Don't let them form. This might require a period of a couple weeks when you don't happen to have any gigs. Practice regularly, up to the point where it seems like the blisters are about to form, then stop and wait a day or two before continuing. Once you reach the point of blistering, then you're back to square one. It's a vicious cycle that's hard to get out of, especially if you have a lot of gigs lined up.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by drurb

That's my experience as well. That's why I mentioned them with a disclaimer. Also, while the EP weich ar reported by many to be "softer" it's also the case that many experience a characteristic stiffness at the front end of a pizz.'ed note. That seems to be part of what gives them their nice punch. On my bass, to my hands, WP weichs are actually more fatiguing than Spiros. YMMV.

I really love Thomastic Dominants and would probably have them on my bass now were it not for the breakage issues. You have to make sure that none of the metal part of the string past the silk winds onto the tuning peg. That seems to be especially true of the G-string. Given the "mirror image" arrangement of the tuners on my bass (with the G tuner being closest to the nut), that condition can't be fulfilled.

What was your mensure, when you had the breakage issues? I have a hypothesis that Doms are designed to be pulled up to a gnat's ass of the breakage point. A longer mensure would mean higher tension and possibly more breakage.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by fdeck

What was your mensure, when you had the breakage issues? I have a hypothesis that Doms are designed to be pulled up to a gnat's ass of the breakage point. A longer mensure would mean higher tension and possibly more breakage.

41.5-41.75"