Jazz with 92s...

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Yesterday for the first time I did an outdoor Jazz gig/concert using the regular orchestra gauge Flexocor 92s. I was originally going to use a different Bass of mine that has Stark 92s but it's out on trial at the moment. I have Starks on all the Basses I play out on now. While I was putting together a Bass that just came in with some regular 92s supplied, after stringing they felt a bit light so I swapped them string by string with the Starks I had on another Bass of mine (Loveri) and ended up using that Bass on the gig since it had the best Jazz sound of the few Basses I had in the office.

As soon as I started playing the first intro with the drummer I was supprised how bouncy these strings were on this Bass. I would have never tried the regular 92s on a Bass for Jazz but after this 'accident' and having to play a different Bass than originally planned I must say I was pleasantly suprised.

How many of you have had success using regular 92s for Jazz or know of someone that does?

[TroyK]

I took some on a trade and had them on for a little while. I loved the feel and was kind of undecided about the sound when I pulled them off. I liked it, but it wasn't that clear from standing over it. Someone sat in on my bass on a gig and I liked the sound from out front quite a bit.

I've kept them to try another time, but took them off for a recording in favor of something I was more familiar with.

Thinking of trying Spirocores right now, actually, even though that is so far at the other end of the spetrum. I'm just between how I want it to sound and how I need it to sound in a noisy room with a quintet.

Troy

[anonymous0726]

Been playing them for about 6-7 months now. Don't have the stark E yet; playing a Spirocore.

Love 'em, although they're slow as hell if you're going to play your NHOP/bop lines pizzicato. Great with the bow, of course. For rhythm section playing no one has any question as to where you're putting your note.

I think that they're ultimately a lot louder and more present, focused, etc. out front than Spiros, although Spiros sound louder when you're playing them.

The sound on my bass is very dark, but focused and the notes are distinct. It almost seems more so the further you get from the bass. My best description of the tone for pizz playing is 'chocolate'. For arco it makes getting that airy/vocal quality a lot easier.

[Andy Allen]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

I think that they're ultimately a lot louder and more present, focused, etc. out front than Spiros, although Spiros sound louder when you're playing them.

I have D & G 92s with Spiro orch. E & A at present (as an experiment - long story )

They definitely have less volume than the Spiros - and this on a bass that is usually more lively on the top strings. But I kind of like the sound - practicing at home or at the studio they sound great - but I'm not sure about them within a bebop/straight-ahead ensemble - they seem to get a bit lost. But that may be just from my perspective - I've not had anyone go out front and check that out yet.

On the other hand, the Latin Jazz band I work with regularly has just started up again after a short hiatus, and at rehearsal these strings were great - their full sound, short sustain and ...erm...'tubbiness' just fit perfectly. When I finally find the new bass I'm looking for I may well fit this one out with 92s and use it just for this gig.

Andy

[KSB - Ken Smith]

I failed to mention that I was using an Amp with a pickup. I used my EBS Drome 15, treble turned off to kill the horn and a Shadow Pickup. The Amp was also hooked into the sound system for the mix as it has an XRL 'out' in the back. Still, the sound I got was just a louder sound of the tone of the Bass or at least to my ear it was. Also, my son Jon came and sat-in for a couple of tunes and I walked around as he played. The Bass cut thru, had depth and sweetness on the top. I could hear the Italian qualities of the Bass amplified or so I think I could..

I know of one orchestra player at least with E or A & E Spiro reds with Flex tops. That's on an Italian Bass as well.

Ray, there was no 'slow as hell' problem with 'NHOP/bop lines pizzicato' as you quote it. It was more like traveling on the 'autoban' in Germany where there is NO 'speed limit' at all.

My only occassional problem is that I use this Bass for Orchestra and there is a bit of rosin at the end of the FB in the strings regardless of how hard I wipe short of using a solvent to get it off. Now that stuff can really slow down the Pizz especially if your finger gets stuck to the string for a second while your'e playing.. Not a fun thing at all.. lol

[anonymous0726]

The four basses that we have here -- New Italian, 50 year old Saxon, 25 year old Saxon ply and Alter Ego -- all respond similarly to the string.

Air -- yeah, the strings seem a lot softer, acoustically, when you're playing the bass. They project great. The sound that you're not hearing is all of the sound going out front We've had mixed sets, Spiros on the bottom and Flexs on the top, and the bottom of the bass just mushed out at a distance in comparison with the top strings.

When I get on a bass with Spiros and play pizz it's like taking weights offa my ankles, though. The notes just flow out and I can play alla my crap on Cherokee with the horn players. I can play similarly fast on the Flexs, but I have to get my right hand way up the fingerboard and play really light, and there is only one volume/timbre that I can get for speed. This sound doesn't project at all, though, and is unclear more than 10 feet from the bass. Slower stuff is fine pizz, though. Still a lot of articulations/timbres that you can use.

[bribass]

I don't know. I haven't tried THAT many different strings over the years. (Corelli's, Flexocores, Pirastro Permanents, Thom. Rope Core), but from what I've tried AND read here... Ya just can't beat those Spiros. For years I 've used Weichs w/ and orchestral 'E' and a Flexocore 'G' on my German round back. On the Prescott, Weichs all across , then switching to an orchestral 'E' and Weichs. Now, by accident I bought a set of Orchestra Spiros, (thought they were Weichs on Evilbay) and put them on the Prescott and I love 'em. Loud, proud, and robust w/ the best snap back of any string. Balances the inherent darkness of that bass. W/ Arco? I just deal w/ it. Not that scratchy if you're careful. JMHO.

Are those Flex 92's you're talking about the ones w/ the rose colored ends?

BG

[anonymous0726]

Sigh. Not the color issue again

Purplish Red; Flex 92; NOT Flex original with the light blue / whatever colored floss.

Maybe it wasn't apparent in my posts, but I don't see myself going back to Spiros unless I have a particular situation that calls for them, so for me you CAN beat the Spiros...

[Michael Case]

Are you sure Ray?

[anonymous0726]

Yup.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

Sigh. Not the color issue again

Purplish Red; Flex 92; NOT Flex original with the light blue / whatever colored floss.

Maybe it wasn't apparent in my posts, but I don't see myself going back to Spiros unless I have a particular situation that calls for them, so for me you CAN beat the Spiros...

Ray,
Yeah, the Purplish Red, that's what I thought. To be fair I've never tried a full set of these. Just the G and it Does bow smoother than Spiros, but you seem to contradict yourself in your earlier post, unless I'm misunderstanding you. I don't mean to be thick, but I know you play lots of Jazz w/ them so why do you like them better than Spiros again?

"When I get on a bass with Spiros and play pizz it's like taking weights offa my ankles, though. The notes just flow out and I can play alla my crap on Cherokee with the horn players. I can play similarly fast on the Flexs, but I have to get my right hand way up the fingerboard and play really light, and there is only one volume/timbre that I can get for speed. This sound doesn't project at all, though, and is unclear more than 10 feet from the bass. Slower stuff is fine pizz, though. Still a lot of articulations/timbres that you can use."

BG

[anonymous0726]

In short, although the Spiros are very, very fast strings pizzicato, the tone/timbre and projection offerings (both arco and pizz) from the Flex 92s far outweigh the speed advantage for me.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

In short, although the Spiros are very, very fast strings pizzicato, the tone/timbre and projection offerings (both arco and pizz) from the Flex 92s far outweigh the speed advantage for me.

...and as compared to Dominants (which I've never tried so I'm curious)?

BG

[anonymous0726]

I loved Dominants for a lot, but could never get over the stiff feel. It could be that I have too much or too little scoop in my fingerboard for them to feel right. As far a tone, the dominants are brighter and have a coarse, guttish sound in contrast with Flexs which are dark and smooth. Not sure about projection comparison as it's been a few years since my Dominant experiment.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

I loved Dominants for a lot, but could never get over the stiff feel. It could be that I have too much or too little scoop in my fingerboard for them to feel right. As far a tone, the dominants are brighter and have a coarse, guttish sound in contrast with Flexs which are dark and smooth. Not sure about projection comparison as it's been a few years since my Dominant experiment.

Thanks Ray.
Hmmm.. brighter would work well w/ the Prescott, but Spiro Orchs. are stiff enough for me. I think the dark Flexs might not cut thru enough w/ the already dark sound of this bass. So for that reason the Spiros seem to be the thing. Maybe for my German I'll try Flexs all across. The Flex G was always less 'whinny' than a Spiro weich on that bass.

BG

[Andy Allen]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

Air -- yeah, the strings seem a lot softer, acoustically, when you're playing the bass. They project great. The sound that you're not hearing is all of the sound going out front We've had mixed sets, Spiros on the bottom and Flexs on the top, and the bottom of the bass just mushed out at a distance in comparison with the top strings.

First gig back with the Latin Jazz band was an interesting experience

I had Spiro reds E&A and Flex 92s D&G. We were playing a corporate gig in a hotel floor/suite/lobby, so it was softly furnished, but otherwise large and not acoustically optimal. Whenever I played on the Spiros I could hear myself playing from the bass as usual. But when I played the 92s I couldn't hear myself play, but heard the sound bouncing back from the room. It sounded great, but was a strange experience being so dislocated from the sound.

The second gig was an open-air private party, and was a disaster for me as I couldn't hear myself at all (it went down really well though, so ). I really love the sound of the 92s when I'm by myself practicing - great feel, great sound, but they are problematic with a band, so I'm back to Dominants. They don't sound anywhere near so good when practicing, but I've already had compliments from the band(s) and they seem to just suit me and this bass. Al bets are off once I get the 'new' bass I'm looking for though.

[anonymous0726]

If you hang with them a minute you learn to tune in to the sound on stage. It took me a few weeks. Now Spiros bug me on stage cuz it sounds like all that I'm hearing is upper partials and I can't tell where the real center of pitch is.

[Andy Allen]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

If you hang with them a minute you learn to tune in to the sound on stage. It took me a few weeks. Now Spiros bug me on stage cuz it sounds like all that I'm hearing is upper partials and I can't tell where the real center of pitch is.

There was definitely a lot to like about these strings - and, of course the arco is a dream...they make it sound like I have some skill with the bow .

Once I get my 'new' bass I will either try the 92s on that (a full set with a stark E) or more likely will string my old bass with them for the Latin gigs. The most disturbing thing was the switch between strings - I could learn to cope with a full set, I'm sure.

Andy