Jazz Strings

[TroyK]

So, here we go again into a new phase of string experimentation.

In the 4 or 5 years that I've had this particular bass, I've gone through 3 distinct phases with strings. It came with Thomastik Superflexibles, which I think we can all agree are hybrids. I went to Obligatos and they fell apart on me, but to Pirastro's credit, they sent me a box of strings as a replacement. I have for the most part stuck with Permanents and have blended in a Flat Chromesteel G. (also in the hybrid category). They also gave me a couple of new sets of Obligatos which after settling on the Permanents, I traded away to many of you in exchange for trying various things.

Last summer I did the solo strings (spirocores in my case) tuned down to orchestral pitch thing to deal with a humidity/tension issue which was cool for a while. Back to Permanents when the season changed.

Then I decided that I really liked and wanted a dark woody sound and didn't want to hear so much string, so I started swapping for orchestra strings. Helicores and Flexicores. Liked both actually, but started understanding that my perfect sound at home wasn't my perfect sound on stage and had a kind of important (for me) recording early in the spring so I went back to Permanents with an OLIV G that I picked up in a trade a year or so earlier and was afraid to try for fear of liking it (I do, by the way, but I'm waiting for it to unravel).

There were things I really liked about the orchestra strings and I may actually go back to them at some point. I kept the Flexicores and have an unopenned set of Helicores that unless someone buys from me or trades for, I'll keep around until I don't. I also really liked some things about the Spirocore Solos when the season was right. I didn't love the sound entirely, but I did like the instant feedback that I got from them and I felt like I played more in tune and perhaps in time as a result. Something that I think I struggled with when I was using Flexicores. Now that I have a new amp and some basic idea how to use the eq to my advantage, I may be able to overcome some of that on stage, but I don't like or want to rely on my amp to help me play better.

On the contrary, I can't really conjur any particular feelings about hybrid strings. They're a compromise, but I keep coming back to them, which means that there is something there. But, I understand what I'm compromising in arco with them now that I've played pure orchestra strings. I've never really had pure pizz strings on this bass, so I can't say that I know what I'm giving up there.

So, thanks to the Talkbass market and a friendly cat, I've got a new set of Pirastro Jazzers and a well used set of Medium gauge Spirocores on the way. Next string change, I think it's time to spend some months with full-on Pizz strings. Then I will have lived in all 3 camps. I've searched and read a lot about Jazzers and the conversations seem to stop pretty quickly. So, if anyone has anything to say about them, I'm listenning. My particular bass seems to sing better with a little less tension, but I like a meaty string. I think that medium spirocores will be a little tight for her and I like to feel a little suppleness under my fingers. Plus, I have to say that after the way that Pirastro treated me, I have some loyality to them. Generally the D and G side of my bass tend to be too bright, so perhaps I'll end up with Flexicores there and Jazzers on the bottom, but we'll see. I'm going to start with the full set and try to give them some time to mellow.

I've got a few other single strings that I may try first, but I'm going into that 3rd category and will soon rival Francois for string experience. Thanks to talkbass, I've traded for or bought used or new-private party, most of them so I haven't spent the fortune that you would think, but I have tried a lot of strings.

This really leaves only a few things.

Gut. Might go there some day, I've played them on other people's basses. I love hearing them on certain records under certain greats' fingers, but I don't think it's really something I want to get into.

Perlon/Silk/Other-wrapped in metal. My experience with Obligatos soured me on this. At the recent Seattle TB hang, I met several people living happy long lives with Obligatos. I played them and they didn't have the problems I did. For some reason, they hold up for some people, but not others. I'm in the later category. I've read with virtually all of these multi-material strings of some durability issue and so I'm staying clear. So, the Obli people can reply and tell me that I just don't understand and the Dominant people can reply and tell me that they don't mean to break, but they had a bad childhood and I'm happy for you, but even as often as I tinker with my string setup, I'm leaving that whole category to you guys until I've seen that market settle down.

Not quite sure why I posted this except because I'm watching my mailbox for my strings and keep having disappointing searches on opinions on Jazzers and because I want to see what Chris Fitzgerald does to my screename when he quotes me in reply.

-tk

[JAS]

Have you tried Animas? I tried them a while back on my Kay, and I am thinking about trying them now on a carved bass. I like the Wiechs Ive been using, but I am kind of itching to see how some other strings that I liked before react on this bass. I can always come back to the wiechs if I need to. I know they work for me and I know how to get what I need out of them, but in the back of my head I am thinking "maybe something else might sound even better on this bass."

I play with pretty low action, so the main thing I am afraid of with the Animas is having to jack up my strings higher than I want to to get a decent tension.

From what I have read about the Animas and from what i remember them sounding like - you might be interested in these if you havent already tried them.

Also, people seem to really be liking Dominants these days. I am also thinkning about trying those and they seem like they might be worth checking out.

[TroyK]

I have an Anima G String that will go on my bass when then OLIV gives out. I've played other people's basses with a full set of Animas before. It's tough to tell about sound based on how they sound on someone else's bass. They feel...different. I think there is probably just an adjustment to them, but again, you can't really make that adjustment just sitting in on someone else's bass. The Velvet strings in general are on my radar, but I haven't delved there yet.

I'm declaring this thread a NO DOMINANT and NO OBLIGATO ZONE to be strictly enforced. If you post about any string on Talkbass, one of those camps will take over your thread. Just like whatever pickup you want to talk about, make sure you hide from the Revolution Solo people or the conversation will go down that rabbit hole. Just kidding, kind of. I'm following those threads too, but it's just a different thing. I'm only interested in durable, stable strings right now. Good old steel.

I know that Obligatos don't hold up for me, but they do for other people. I know that statistically Dominants break more than the strings I've mentioned above. The defense to that statement is well documented and justified in the various Dominant threads. I follow those threads too and I'll look forward to getting my hands on someone else's Dominants some day, but this thread is about steel strings (and my OLIV G, God Bless her).

Man, it feels good to pretend that I have power.

Troy

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by TantrumKing

...So, the Obli people can reply and tell me that I just don't understand and the Dominant people can reply and tell me that they don't mean to break, but they had a bad childhood and I'm happy for you, but even as often as I tinker with my string setup...

Originally Posted by ThreadnaziKing

I'm declaring this thread a NO DOMINANT and NO OBLIGATO ZONE to be strictly enforced.

Ok this is funny stuff. Nice post.

I don't have anything to add really. You've tried, ruled out or have on the way anything I'd suggest.

When you find an all steel string that does what you are looking for post very LOUDLY so I know what it is too. I'm using Animas and have a love/hate with them.

I'd like a string that is dark and full like guts, with long sustain and stable tuning like a spirocore, articulate attack like the dominant, that sounds rich throughout the note like an Anima. It should have a fat string diameter, low tension that feels supple but is stiff, that won't break and bows like a Flexocore.

Watcha got?

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I'd like a string that is dark and full like guts, with long sustain and stable tuning like a spirocore, articulate attack like the dominant, that sounds rich throughout the note like an Anima. It should have a fat string diameter, low tension that feels supple but is stiff, that won't break and bows like a Flexocore.

That's what I'm talking about! The quest continues.

[TroyK]

Oh yeah, my point. Anyone a consistent Jazzer user who wants to tell me what to expect?

[PB+J]

It's the names--You're "Obligatoed" to be "Dominanted."

I really like animas on my bass--the feel, the sound, the whole nine yeards. And I'm all pizz all the time, at least if there's anyone within earshot

The animas do have, as UN-TOE'D says, a softer attack than a lot of strings. I like it, but it may nt be or everyone

[Michael Glynn]

Originally Posted by TroyK

Oh yeah, my point. Anyone a consistent Jazzer user who wants to tell me what to expect?

Hey Troy,

I used full Jazzer sets for a couple of years. I like them a lot, but I found the D and especially G a little twangy and thin sounding. They were no worse than any similar jazz string (like Spiros) in this regard, I just think my bass and my ears prefer a thicker, darker sounding string up top. The tone is quite similar to Spirocores. I got about a year out of them before I felt they were dead enough to warrant replacement. I thought they bowed a little better than spiro orchs or weichs, but not much better. The tension and gauge felt about halfway between spiro orch and weich.

Michael

[TroyK]

Thanks Michael. You know this is your fault anyway. I liked your low C Jazzer enough to think about giving them a try. I've been feeling obligated to try Spriocore reds, but know they will be too high tension for my bass.

I've never had a full set of matching strings on my bass, so I full expect at least the G to be something darker.

The one real knock I have on Permanents is in spite of the name, the sound goes out of them between 6 and 9 months. They just get dead. A year and a half sounds great to me if I like them. Even if I just end up with them on the bottom.

Troy

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by Michael Glynn

I thought they bowed a little better than spiro orchs or weichs, but not much better.

I read this in an ISB mag a while back, that the Jazzers bowed surprisingly well. Never tried them myself and never seen anyone else use them.

After seeing so many basses with different strings at band camp, I was sold on Helicore strings for jazz and put mine back on. I have the orchestras on the top 2 and hybrids on the bottom 2. I'm now a happy camper (until the next compulsion of course LOL).

Best of all, they have a great bowed tone too.

This is just me and my subjective viewpoint of course. To someone else, they may not be the ideal jazz string for either pizz or arco.

[Alex Scott]

I'm sorry, did you say you tried Spirocore Weich's? I have a set I keep taking off and putting back on that sounds pretty good. I think they are way different than the medium ones, and with pop's rosin and some time, they can bow pretty well.

You have to remember who all bows these things, not sure about gauges Joelle Leandre, Mark Dresser, Drew Gress etc. they sound good, but need you to do some work or break them in lots.

[damonsmith]

Spirocores + practice is the best formula I have found. More often than not I can find the sound I am looking for through adjustments in technique rather than gear....
I am using weichs (purples) because my neck is a bit weak, I prefer the orchestra gauge (reds).

[Michael Glynn]

Originally Posted by TroyK

Thanks Michael. You know this is your fault anyway. I liked your low C Jazzer enough to think about giving them a try. I've been feeling obligated to try Spriocore reds, but know they will be too high tension for my bass.

You shouldn't follow my example! You saw where I ended up--4 brands of strings on 1 bass

As people have mentioned, spirocores can be bowed very successfully with a great arco tone--just not by me! I actually knew a very good classical player who had E, A and D flexocore and a G spirocore! Just the opposite of the way I would do it, but he wanted that G string to really cut through and he sounded great with it.

Michael

[TroyK]

I've seen people bow solos on Spirocores before. Ray Brown once and some lesser players. I liked the solos tuned down, flirted with a weich and didn't connect with it the same way. As mentioned, I think reds would be too much tension for my bass. A different bass a different time.

Interesting that discussions of Jazzers always lead to discussions of Spirocores. I know that Thomastik owns the market on this corner of the string world, but I want to try the Jazzers for the reasons mentioned.

Damon, you're a better man than I. Good for you. Why waste time hanging out in the strings forum?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by TroyKott Dominants and Obligati

Not quite sure why I posted this except because I'm watching my mailbox for my strings and keep having disappointing searches on opinions on Jazzers and because I want to see what Chris Fitzgerald does to my screename when he quotes me in reply.

I agree with Damon. You want indestrucible strings that you can play jazz on, you can't really go wrong with spirocores. The break in period sucks, but after that, you're good. Other than that, I don't have any great string advice other than focus on getting the sound out of your hands no matter what you're playing. I've played a lot of different basses this week, with all kind of different strings, including Rufus' Kolstien travel bass (animas), Bill Moring's Czech bass (helicores), and a bunch of student basses, and I always sound like me with different strings. If the sound is in your ear, it'll come out of the bass eventually no matter what's on it.

I'm curious about one thing, though...why don't you think your bass can handle the tension of spiro reds?

[damonsmith]

"I'm curious about one thing, though...why don't you think your bass can handle the tension of spiro reds?"
- The neck has broken off a few times. Reds make the last repair (with marine epoxy and a bolt) open the crack but not break. It happens only on really hot days since the epoxy is heat sensitive. My luthier told me he could not do much until breaks again. The Weichs do not cause any trouble and sound fine, so I use those.

[TroyK]

Totally worth the post for the pseudonym!

With me it's not that my bass can't handle the tension, it's just that it speaks better with less. And, I always sound like me on whatever I'm playing too (for better and for worse), but I have a string thing.

Francois, I'm coming after you, Buddy. I want a shot at the title!

[Anonymous75966]

+1 on Spirocores (practice: optional). My current choice for an all-around string, and I used Permanents for a while before that. I like the sound of the Permanents but also found they go dead quickly. Spiro medium actually feels looser on my instrument than Permanents did, although by the numbers they're higher tension. Might be worth a try, there's going to be plenty of used sets out there.

I think the Helicore Orchestra / Hybrid combo is a good suggestion as well, if you want a darker sound on all-steel strings. I played a lot of jazz on a full set of Heli Orchestra when I was in school, and they always seemed satisfyingly gut-esque on my bass. I've never found them to be really durable strings though: the windings in the RH pizz area would start stretching out in a few months. At least they're almost cheap ...

[martinc]

Your string journey sounds all too familiar.
After taking the same route for several years I have come home to a couple of combinations for my two plywood (King Mortone and Eberle) basses:
Spirocore Weichs or Pirastro Jazzers with a gut or Innovation to get a more solid sound on the G. Once the Weichs or Jazzers settle in (up to a month) they work well (pizz) with the gut or synthetic G.
I love the solid sound and feel of both of these combinations. They sound great amplified too.

[TroyK]

That's good to hear, actually. The Permenant G has always felt too bright for me, so I don't have any real expectations of not pulling in a G from another set (and maybe a D), but I'm going to try. The only complete set I ever stuck with for any period of time was the tuned down solos. That was really a nice set during a certain humidity cycle and one piece of data that I base my claim that my instrument sings better with lower tension.

So I have a new set of Jazzers and an old well worn set of Spiro reds on the way.

Regarding Helicore Orchestras. I liked them too. The set I tried was very old (traded for them). I really liked the tone and got good feedback on them when not on stage, but the low notes really got lost. I actually liked them enough to buy a new set thinking that at least some of that was age, but got into a recording and wanted to put strings on that I knew for it and haven't gone back yet. The Helicore Hybrid E and A with Orchestra D and G combo occurred to me and if I land the right trade, I may try that at some point.

But, I'm going for bright, agressive, sustainy for a while first.

Thanks for your feedback.

Troy