Kay Top/String Question

flyingmarcel · #1 08-16-2006, 03:27 PM

Greetings,

It was difficult to decide where to put this thread, so I hope I picked the right spot - seemed like it could also fit under set up/repair.

I have a late 40's Kay bass that I currently have strung with Helicore Hybrid Light gauge strings. When I purchased the bass, I read that the tops on these basses are fairly thin and were not made to take a lot of pressure from excess string tension. Since I was buying this bass to replace another laminate that's top was sinking (perhaps due to string tension, perhaps due to being a crappy laminate!), I was careful to select a low tension string and my local luthier suggested the Helicores. However, I find these strings to be way too thin for my liking - The tension feels alright, but if possible, I'd like to move up to something with a little more resistance.

So, for my two part question - First, is it true that these basses require low tension strings to ballance out their thin tops? And Secondly, if I was thinking of purchasing a set of Spirocores to replace the hybrids, what would be the maximum tension Spirocore you would choose that wouldn't damage the bass top due to excess pressure?

Just as background, I have in the past used the Labella 7710's, as well as several sets of Superflexibles, just to give an idea of where I've been. I'm not set on the Spirocores for certain, but as a strictly Jazz guy (very little arco), I feel like i have to give them a chance sooner or later.

Thanks a million!

fm

Jake deVilliers · #2 08-16-2006, 06:36 PM

I've seen many a Kay with Spirocore Mittels and no top problems from them. My wife is currently using FCS but has a set of Permanents ready to be installed. Her bass had Mittels on it for many years.

The necks are a little undersized, but as long as the board is fairly thick its not a serious problem. I like to straighten the neck and install a carbon fibre neck reinforcement when I replace a Kay board. The neck is WAY stiffer, and seems to transmit the high frequencies into the soundbox better.

You might also want to make sure that your sound post isn't too far from the bridge if you go to thicker strings.

YMMV, pro driver on closed course, etc, Jake

martinc · #3 08-22-2006, 06:24 AM

Try the Spirocore Weichs (light). They sounded good on my Kays and the tension felt right for the bass and for me. I always felt regular Spirocores have way too much tension for older Kays which were designed for gut strings.

jmceachern36 · #4 08-22-2006, 06:51 AM

I've read in these threads (no personal experience) that Dominents are low tension but are a stiff string. You could look into those.

PB+J · #5 08-22-2006, 07:02 AM

Not a popular choice around here but I really liked Eurosonics on my ply engle. They're lower tension and wider in diameter than most strings. They are impossible to bow.

jmceachern36 · #6 08-22-2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB+J

Not a popular choice around here but I really liked Eurosonics on my ply engle. They're lower tension and wider in diameter than most strings. They are impossible to bow.

Which gauge do you use? I'm doing some experimenting with lower tention strings right now and was looking at those. I'm using weichs right now.

PB+J · #7 08-22-2006, 07:36 AM

trying to remember, it's been a while

The first set I got was called "medium," I think. then they came out with a "light" and an "ultralight". I had a set of the "lights" at the end, when i sold the bass

The medium set--the "E" string was just too fat and stiff, and I ended up using an obligato "E" I had a round. The light set was fine--a little less full than the medium set, but the "E" wasn't such a problem.

mesmithnm · #8 08-22-2006, 07:42 AM

I use the Spirocore S42 set (medium gauge, 4/4 length) on my 52 Kay and I've not seen any problems with the top. Seems to me if the soundpost is correctly positioned and the bass bar is good there should be no problems

flyingmarcel · #9 08-22-2006, 10:27 AM

Hello All,

Thank you for all the replies - I don't know how I managed to NOT notice all the replies to a thread that I started (even managed to miss the email notifications!)

Anyhow, I noticed the mention of the older Kays not being made with steel strings in mind - This is what I have heard as well, so I'm a little worried about going too high tension with my string choice.

With that said, I'm interested in knowing a little more about the thickness of the Spirocore medium strings - Does anyone know how they compare to the Superflexible strings? I'm curious, as ever since I've had the Helicore Hybrid Light Gauge strings, I have felt they are too thin for my liking - Just a few minutes playing my other bass, strung with Superflexibles and I can feel a drastic difference. I'm worried that I will suffer the same consequence if I pick up the Spirocore Weichs.

I'm curious to hear more about the dominants - Light gauge, but feel stiff? That sounds like what I'd be looking for in regards to this instrument - Something I can really dig in on, but won't sink my top!

Lastly, I've read the thread on here about the new Thomastik Belcanto bass strings that are to come out this year - Does anyone know if these will come in multiple gauges or just a single one? I might hold out and give those a try, as I've read they will be a little more bow friendly as well as a dark sounding string - Sounds like a good string for my taste!

Thanks,

fm

martinc · #10 08-22-2006, 11:13 AM

Flyingmarcel:

I prefer the Weichs for feel, tension and sound on a Kay. Once they settle in you will get a solid sound from them. I replace the G because its too thin-sounding for me.
Why not order a Weich D or A to try it out? I'll be glad to mail you a Superflexible D or A to borrow so you can make a comparison. Both strings though will need a couple of weeks to settle in properly and lose their intitial zing.
Dominants have a much "tighter" feel than the Weichs or Superflexibles. A bit more tension too. Regular Spiro's will feel like cables compared with the Weichs.....and have much more tension.
Obligato's may work well for you too. Similar feel to Weichs. Only problem is they don't last as long. But they do sound good on most Kays (Swingmaster and C-1) in my experience.

ctxbass · #11 08-22-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingmarcel

With that said, I'm interested in knowing a little more about the thickness of the Spirocore medium strings - Does anyone know how they compare to the Superflexible strings? I'm curious, as ever since I've had the Helicore Hybrid Light Gauge strings, I have felt they are too thin for my liking - Just a few minutes playing my other bass, strung with Superflexibles and I can feel a drastic difference. I'm worried that I will suffer the same consequence if I pick up the Spirocore Weichs.

Spirocore mediums are about the same gauge as Superflexibles, but
I find them noticeably higher in tension (i.e. I need a lower string height to be comfortable).
I've never used weichs, but I'm sure someone else will chime in.

flyingmarcel · #12 08-22-2006, 02:58 PM

hmmmm,

Its interesting that you mention the string height in relation to string tension - I do feel like the string height on my Kay is a little higher than I'd like - Maybe if I went to a higher tension string it would be A LOT higher than I would like.

I do like the guage of the superflexibles, but I don't know if I'd want something with a whole lot more tension - Anyone have any experience with both the Weichs and the Helicore Hybrids? I'd like to know if I'd be trading in apples for apples, or if I'd been gaining a little more meat on the strings with the Weichs

Thanks,

fm

rftbass · #13 08-22-2006, 05:46 PM

Have you considered using a raised saddle?

martinc · #14 08-23-2006, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingmarcel

hmmmm,

Anyone have any experience with both the Weichs and the Helicore Hybrids? I'd like to know if I'd be trading in apples for apples, or if I'd been gaining a little more meat on the strings with the Weichs

Thanks,

fm

The Weich has more meat than the Helicore Hybrids. More sustain and volume too. If you read some of the many threads on Helicores, a common complaint for pizz is that there is too much string sound and not enough of the bass. Thats my experience too. Bowing might be a different story.
However the Helicores feel very good on the left hand....just like Weichs.

flyingmarcel · #15 08-23-2006, 09:33 AM

MartinC,

Thanks for all the insight into these strings - I appreciate it very much.

I have noticed that the Helicores are quite weak when it comes to sustain, so I'm happy to hear that the Weichs will be an improvement. I think its settled, I'll order a set and give them a try.

Thanks again,

fm

martinc · #16 08-23-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingmarcel

MartinC,

Thanks for all the insight into these strings - I appreciate it very much.

I have noticed that the Helicores are quite weak when it comes to sustain, so I'm happy to hear that the Weichs will be an improvement. I think its settled, I'll order a set and give them a try.

Thanks again,

fm

Marcel: Don't forget my offer to lend you the Superflexible A or D if you want to check against the Weichs.

flyingmarcel · #17 08-23-2006, 08:30 PM

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the offer - I actually have a partial set of unused Superflexes (My other bass has a set on and I managed to score a couple back ups). I've been hesitant to try them out, but maybe I'll throw one or both on when I get the Weichs and see which I prefer

Thank you again for your generosity! Very much appreciated.

fm