Latest on Fifths tuning??

gtodd876 · #1 01-08-2010, 05:47 AM

I'd like to try out fifths tuning and I was wondering if the best option for strings is still:

Dom solo A
Dom D
Dom solo F# tuned to G
Spiro C

Let me know if you better options for mainly arco playing

Thank you in advance for any advice,

Todd

**Francois Blais** · #2 01-08-2010, 06:08 AM

The Dominant low C is available, by the way, acording to this:
http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/johc...etfamilieSub=8

There are fifth tuning sets already available.
Spirocores, Obligatos, Velvet Compas 180 (flatwound).

Belcantos are now also available in solo-tuning, and there's a low B available.

Mike D. · #3 01-09-2010, 03:05 PM

I think Dominants over a Spiro C is the best place to start.
The Dominant C, from what I've heard is quite a big string.
I have yet to hear Bel'Cantos in solo-tuning or the solo-tuning/5ths blend. Could be interesting.
Evah Pirazzi is available in solo tuning. They're quite similar to Dominants (synthetic core, wide diameter). They might have less 'zzzing' than Dominants. They might be more reliable than Dominants as the Dominants have a bit of a reputation of breaking.
Pirastro has other solo strings (Flexocore Original, the NEW Flexocore, Flat-Chrome-Steel, Original Flat Chrome, Permanents, etc) that might be interesting to hear how they sound when tuned to fifths.
Obligatos seem like they might be attractive as they 'grab' easily, but they lack volume. They also lack in clarity of articulation and have a tendency to roll (particularly on the low strings).
This information is based on speaking with the fifth's tuned students at McGill studying with Joel.

**Francois Blais** · #4 01-09-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Pirastro has other solo strings (Flexocore Original, the NEW Flexocore, Flat-Chrome-Steel, Original Flat Chrome, Permanents, etc) that might be interesting to hear how they sound when tuned to fifths.

Original Flexocors are not available in solo-tuning, but Original Flatchromes, which are extremely similar.

paulunger · #5 01-09-2010, 03:39 PM

Gtodd,
I am a professional orchestral bassist who tunes in fifths. So here is my 2 cents.
I have tried every combination and type of string. Only a balanced set made for fifths tuning actually work. The tension of various solo strings in combination with regular strings really mess up the response of the bass and it will drive you crazy.
The Dominants will break on you if you take them off and on more than once.
You can sort of get away with mixing a D and high A solo string but the low G and low C must be strings made for those pitches.
I would stay away from the Velvet fifths set.
The low C from the Red Mitchell set works good, but it is a Spirocore.
The best strings available are the custom strings made by Gerold Genssler, but they are VERY expensive.
The best commercial option is the Obligato fifths set. They have a new formula which increases the tension and volume of the low C and low G. But you must get in touch with Adrian Mueller at Pirastro and order them directly. You could probably get Chris Quinn at Quinn Violins or any dealer who deals directly with Pirastro to do it for you.
Good luck

Chris Symer · #6 01-09-2010, 08:28 PM

That's interesting to hear about the new formula for the Obligato C and G. I've been staying with the Red Mitchell set C and G and a variety of others on the top two (presently Flat-Chrome-Steel). 90% of my practice time is spent with the bow but 90% of my income is Pizz. For me at least it's the G that is the problem child in the bunch. I might have to get back to the Obligato set and see how it is now.

Has anyone ever custom ordered from Thomastik? Their website leads me to believe that they would be able to make a Belcanto set for fifths tuning. I'd be curios about that as well.

paulunger · #7 01-09-2010, 09:52 PM

The Red Mitchell set is great for jazz. No need for you to switch unless you want to do more bowing.
Thomastik strung me along for two years, promising to make a Belcanto fifths set, and then backed out. Contact Bernhard Reiger at Thomastik and ask him to make a fifths set of Blecantos. Maybe if enough people ask him, he will do it.
If you are committed to fifths tuning you may want to consider paying for a custom set from Gerold Genssler. They are amazing under the bow. He will make them to sound and play the way you want.

Chris Symer · #8 01-09-2010, 10:24 PM

Thanks for the info Paul. I'll bug Thomastik a bit about the Belcantos and see if it helps. Although I am fairly happy with the lower half of the Red Mitchell set I think there is still room for improvement. I agree they are strong for pizz playing as a set but I just can't get behind the arco sound of the top two.
Nine years now since I swicthed to fifths and I don't see myself going back. I've heard quite a few good things about the Genssler strings, perhaps I'll have to go for a set someday.

P.S. Your 5 string looks like an interesting build, I'm going to be lusting after that when it's done.

bejoyous · #9 01-10-2010, 07:44 AM

While I don't play in fifths (except the bottom string - I use DADG) I do use all Spiros and I think they bow just great. Since I changed from Evahs, I've had two people comment on how sweet and beautiful my bass sounds. No one ever made that comment before!

They are also loud. So if your bowing chops are up, go for the Red Mitchell set.

DavidBassPlayer · #10 07-31-2011, 02:00 PM

I initially tried the Corelli solo/orch mix for fifths tuning. It works, strings are soft, but the A is harsh and the C was far too quiet. I tried a Thomastic Spirocore Red Mitchell set. They work wonderfully for pizz, but are a bit harsh under the bow. They made my sows ear of a Chinese laminated bass really sing though. Pirastro asked me to try the Passione strings in the solo/orch mix for fifths: Solo A, stark orch D, solo F# turned up to G, and orchestral B turned up to C. A and D matched nicely, but the G was much louder, and had a wolf between octave G and the next D. The C was too soft. I went back to my beloved Pirastro Obligato for Fifths, and my Pollman just LOVES them. Balanced, pretty sound, responsive, good pizz. Please follow what Paul Unger said: use a set made for fifths tuning. I can't afford Gerold Genssler's strings, but how I wish I could. Try the Obligatos I think you will like them.

paulunger · #11 08-01-2011, 10:55 AM

David,
I'm glad to hear you are happy with the Obigato Fifths Tuning strings. They are a good hybrid string but still not quite strong enough for the orchestra (IMHO). Adrian Mueller at Pirastro promised to make a steel"orchestral" string for fifths tuning at the end of the year. Please contact him and encourage him to do so.
Regarding Genssler; Another option is to purchase a low C and low G from Genssler. You can match that with most any D and solo A. (Joel uses Dominants on top).
FYI: I had a chance to also play on a special Eudoxa fifths set this summer. The C, G and D strings were KILLER! I never thought I'd love playing a gut core string that much. I also played a set of Genssler gut strings and they were very nice. Welcome to the (Super Kick Ass) Fifths Club! You should think about coming to MOnt Orford next summer and studying with Joel Quarrington.

Best luck.

Chris Symer · #12 08-01-2011, 12:01 PM

Paul, I am curios as to your experience with the Velvets that you say you'd stay away from. I've been on a set of the Compas 180's since October and have been loving them. So far they are a wonderful hybrid string on my bass and I'd hate for others to pass them by just because of that one statement. I did break the A once playing very hard pizz unamplified with a quartet, but have had no problems since and am very happy with the sound both pizz and arco.

paulunger · #13 08-01-2011, 01:15 PM

They are a good hybrid string, but they didn't work in the orchestra.

ldekoning · #14 08-01-2011, 02:22 PM

Paul, I remember reading in a thread somewhere that you didn't like the Evah orchestra-solo combination for fifths? Could you elaborate? I think Evahs sound fantastic (in fourths) and I can't wait to hear how these powerful, dark strings work in fifths.

paulunger · #15 08-01-2011, 03:17 PM

I didn't care for the solo F# tuned up to G. It was too much tension for me. Some people have more luck on their basses with Evahs and Dominants tuned up.

eerbrev · #16 08-02-2011, 07:52 PM

i'm currently using evahs adg and a passione low c. at first i didn't like the low c at all but it's really grown on me lately. I'm playing the trout at the Tuckamore chamber music festival in a few weeks, and 5ths is making some runs a lot easier (the unison part with the cello in the 1st mvt? easy peasy).

paulunger · #17 08-03-2011, 07:34 AM

Playing Schubert's "Trout" in fifths tuning was another one of those special moments for me. It really reaffirmed how superior fifths tuning is for classical music. Everything just made so much more sense musically. You can play a legato line up the string in unison with the cello; your strings vibrate in sympathy with everyone else; your intonations matches the groups' and when it does you can feel the music just open up. Fifths tuning is super cool, kick ass!

MikeCanada · #18 08-30-2011, 09:46 AM

Having played the Compas 180 fifths set in an orchestra, I think it comes down to the section and the orchestra as well. Some bass sections have very distinctive sounds, and some swear by setups that would not blend or work in other sections at all. I did not have a problem with them, but each bass, bassist, and section is different from the next.

William Hoffman · #19 09-15-2011, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Symer

...For me at least it's the G that is the problem child in the bunch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Symer

...Although I am fairly happy with the lower half of the Red Mitchell set I think there is still room for improvement. I agree they are strong for pizz playing as a set but I just can't get behind the arco sound of the top two...

Chris, why is the Red Mitchell "G" a problem?

Is your opinion that arco sound of D and A (top two) is too twangy or metallic sounding? That would resound with my own experience of Spiro orch G strings.

On that second point, wouldn't a Belcanto solo "A" work well with the other three Red Mitchells? Tension-wise the BCs and Spiro orch Gs are about the same.

MikeCanada · #20 09-15-2011, 01:27 PM

I have never had a chance to try the new Bel Canto Solo strings in a 5ths mix, but I would agree that the upper two, a solo "A" and an orchestra "D" would be a good mix. G's for a 5ths tuning have always been a problem, some people try to use an A and crank it down because the F# tuned up a semitone can feel tense and "choke" the bass, but usually the tuned down A ends up being a floppy mess, especially if you want to use it for Jazz.

I feel that it often comes down to your particular instrument at this point. I love the Velvet 180 Compas set, because they work well on my bass. I liked the Permanents Solo/Orch mix with a Spirocore on the bottom, because it worked on my bass and sounded huge. There's a shop in Toronto that has a box of strings they let you bring your instrument in and try on it. I doubt many shops have that option, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Ultimately, until you try it, you likely won't know what your bass is going to want on it.