Less breakable dominant alternative?

[Martin Beer]

I've been using dominants for about 6 months and have been very happy with the sound. However, over the weekend both my G and D strings have broken where the string meets the tuner. The strings have not been taken on and off the bass during this time, the metal wound part of the string does not reach the tuner, and my nut slots do not seem to be too small, which perhaps rules out some of the obvious causes of breakage. I'm guessing that after 6 months of regular playing, it's probably too late to ask for a replacement from Thomastik.
I can't afford to continue using strings that might only last 6 months, so can anyone help me find an alternative? I play unamplified a lot, about 75% pizz / 25% arco, and I like the pizz volume, strong fundamental and attack, and easy arco response of the dominants. What I don't want is too much of a bright, sustainy modern jazz type of sound. I've had superflexibles before, and didn't mind them, so they would be one potential option. My string height is currently around 6-10mm, by the way.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Martin Beer

I'm guessing that after 6 months of regular playing, it's probably too late to ask for a replacement from Thomastik.

I would respectfully disagree, strings are meant to last longer than 6 months. I would send them back.

Just making sure: Did you lubricate well in the first installation? Have you read the dominant installation threads? there is some good advice there that could help you in the future. I have had no problems since using lip balm for the installation.

Francois turned me on to Pirastro Chromcors, they share certain characteristics of the dominants. They are very different strings though. Easier to bow, not as loud, darker, very good in general. My only complaint is that the E is too dark and goes sharp if you play it loud. I'm using a thomastik spirocore stark E.

[ThomastikMike]

Martin:

Unfortunately, I can only take care of customer service issues in the United States. I do urge you to email Thomastik directly if you are seeking replacement strings.

info@thomastik-infeld.com

[Martin Beer]

I don't know if they were lubricated or not, as I had them fitted by the local luthier from whom I got the bass. I'd hope that he would know about this stuff though. If I was totally confident that I could avoid future breakage, I'd replace them with more Dominants, but I'm a little wary at the moment...

[Francois Blais]

Obligatos are not prone to breakage, as far as I know.

I don't know about Kolstein's Heritages though.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Martin Beer

I don't know if they were lubricated or not, as I had them fitted by the local luthier from whom I got the bass. I'd hope that he would know about this stuff though. If I was totally confident that I could avoid future breakage, I'd replace them with more Dominants, but I'm a little wary at the moment...

There you have it !

I am sure that your local luthier is good and honest. The problem is that often luthiers (and even specialized bass repair people) are not familiar with the double bass dominant issues. They usually wind them up too fast, sometimes with power tools. Even if you tune them up at "normal" speed, it is often too quick for them, especially if they haven't been lubricated.

I am pretty confident that Thomastik will replace them for you, they have been very good about it so far.

[Martin Beer]

I'm awaiting a reply for thomastik in europe, and in the meantime i've ordered some new dominants (hopefully in time for my weekend gig - my only spares are the horrible chinese factory strings!) and got myself an 8B pencil for the nut slots. If thomastik do replace my strings, then I'll have some spares, which are always useful. It may be that my luthier wasn't aware of these issues. He has a good reputation among Edinburgh's classical people, but mostly deals with the other string instruments, and seemed suprised to find a bassist asking for dominants. I hope the new ones work for me, as I'm pretty happy with the sound and feel, and it'd be nice not to have to get used to something else...

[eh_train]

Hi Martin,

I have just had a chance to directly compare Obligatos and Dominants, and my initial impression is that they are similar. Having said this, the Dominants (which I'm just trying for the first time), are brand new, and not quite settled in yet.

Another potential advantage of the Obligatos is price. There have been many reviews of Obligatos in the past; you might want to search for this info...

[ThomastikMike]

Martin:

There is a national holiday in Austria right now so you may not get an answer from Thomastik until Monday. Send me a copy of your email and I will make sure they get it.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Martin Beer

got myself an 8B pencil for the nut slots.

That's good, but do put lip balm or vaseline on the string AS WELL, from where it rubs the nut and the bridge to about an inch down (as you tune up and the string stretches....). It will only take you a second to clean it up with a paper towel afterwards. Tune up slowly.

[Larry Holloway]

Hi ThomastikMike:
Sorry to slightly derail this thread, but wondering if you got my email a few weeks ago? It was regarding info about Spiros & Dominants.

Originally Posted by ThomastikMike

Martin:

There is a national holiday in Austria right now so you may not get an answer from Thomastik until Monday. Send me a copy of your email and I will make sure they get it.

[Martin Beer]

Originally Posted by ThomastikMike

Martin:

There is a national holiday in Austria right now so you may not get an answer from Thomastik until Monday. Send me a copy of your email and I will make sure they get it.

Thanks for offering, Mike, but I don't think I saved the email when I sent it (for some odd reason my email doesn't do that automatically). I'll wait until a day or two into next week to see if they replied before I try again.
Rod, I'll give the vaseline a try. I was a little worried that it might not be good for the synthetic core (since some plastics can go brittle when exposed to oily substances and I don't know exactly what the core of these is made of), but I guess it'll be OK if i don't use enough to soak through the windings, and if the core is nylon, it shouldn't be affected anyway...

[Al Smith]

With a week of no gigs I would practice and when finished, install one string tuning slowly to about a fourth below the desired pitch. Then, often, during the day and evening, tune up a half step at a time, especially for g and D. The next morning the Dominant string still needs tuning.

Also, keeping an eye on the bridge location.

This may be a little slow, but it follows the advice of installing so the string stretches and settles in slowly. - Al

[Andy Allen]

Originally Posted by eh_train

Hi Martin,

I have just had a chance to directly compare Obligatos and Dominants, and my initial impression is that they are similar. Having said this, the Dominants (which I'm just trying for the first time), are brand new, and not quite settled in yet.

Another potential advantage of the Obligatos is price. There have been many reviews of Obligatos in the past; you might want to search for this info...

Having tried both Dominants and Obligatos on my present bass I found them to be very different, almost opposites:

Tone: Oblis - dark and thumpy, Doms - Hard attack, full frequency range.
Feel: Oblis - soft, Doms - stiff
Volume: Oblis - medium-low, Doms - high

Oblis seem to be very bass-dependent - on some basses they sound great, and on some, like my bass, they just don't. Also the lower price of the Oblis is offset by their short life span, so no advantage there.

I think that while non-steel strings need a little extra care and attention, taking days to fit strings is going to a ridiculous extreme. Fitting the strings carefully, lubricating the bridge and nut slots with pencil graphite (I don't like the vaseline idea) and winding them up to pitch by hand should be all that is necessary. Any problems after taking this amount of care would indicate physical problems with the bass (sharp edges, shorter scale allowing the thick portion of the string to reach the tuning peg, etc) or a faulty string. After all, a string that breaks after six months seems unlikely to be an installation issue - more likely a materials fatigue issue.

Andy

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by ANDY GRIFFITH

Having tried both Dominants and Obligatos on my present bass I found them to be very different, almost opposites:

Tone: Oblis - dark and thumpy, Doms - Hard attack, full frequency range.
Feel: Oblis - soft, Doms - stiff
Volume: Oblis - medium-low, Doms - high

Oblis seem to be very bass-dependent - on some basses they sound great, and on some, like my bass, they just don't. Also the lower price of the Oblis is offset by their short life span, so no advantage there.

I completely agree. The only way Dominants could be more different from Obligatos to my ear is if they were Spiros.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Martin Beer

Rod, I'll give the vaseline a try. I was a little worried that it might not be good for the synthetic core (since some plastics can go brittle when exposed to oily substances and I don't know exactly what the core of these is made of), but I guess it'll be OK if i don't use enough to soak through the windings, and if the core is nylon, it shouldn't be affected anyway...

The core is Perlon which is a type of nylon (Nylon 6 or polycaprolactam), no risk whatsoever.
Vaseline and slow tune-up will ensure structural integrity in the long run.

[ThomastikMike]

Use graphite (pencil lead) to dry lubricate the nut grooves and slowly bring your strings up to pitch. Do not detune or take the strings off once they are installed. Also, because the diameter of these strings is different than other brands, make sure the nut grooves are cut to the correct size. Having your instrument set up and strings changed by a luthier is also very important.

Because such an incredible amount of tension and pressure is placed on such a small surface area, the slightest burr, sharp edge, etc. can vastly affect a string's longevity.

[jfv]

Originally Posted by ThomastikMike

Use graphite (pencil lead) to dry lubricate the nut grooves and slowly bring your strings up to pitch. Do not detune or take the strings off once they are installed. Also, because the diameter of these strings is different than other brands, make sure the but grooves are cut to the correct size. Having your instrument set up and strings changed by a luthier is also very important.

Because such an incredible amount of tension and pressure is placed on such a small surface area, the slightest burr, sharp edge, etc. can vastly affect a string's longevity.

Hmm, so you're saying that once put on, and then taken off,
they wont be reusable? I had a set on my bass, then decided
to be nice to my fingers while I'm working on thumb position
and put my Corelli 370 Mediums back on I planned on
putting the Dominants back on in a couple months, so is
this going to be a problem?

Regards,

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by jfv

I planned on
putting the Dominants back on in a couple months, so is
this going to be a problem?

I've done that. Haven't had one break on me that way. They take a bit to settle in after that. The only time it didn't work was when I had the fingerboard on my old German bass shimmed and the bridge replaced. The strings were grooved from the nut and bridge and those grooves moved a bit. The G string was falsing. I put a fresh set on there and they are still sounding good a year plus later. Caveat: I don't play that bass much though so it's not the best test case.

[Andy Allen]

Originally Posted by jfv

Hmm, so you're saying that once put on, and then taken off,
they wont be reusable? I had a set on my bass, then decided
to be nice to my fingers while I'm working on thumb position
and put my Corelli 370 Mediums back on I planned on
putting the Dominants back on in a couple months, so is
this going to be a problem?

Regards,

The A & D Dominants I'm using at present are on their 3rd installation. They have been carefully installed and removed each time, and other than taking a day or so to settle after each installation they don't seem to have suffered.

Andy