Low tension Metal string Choice jazz pizzicato

[malpasso]

Before anyone may deviate me to the newbie thread section, I'll say that I have already made intense research of this topic.I've had my hybrid Strunal 5/35 3/4 bass for one month. I ordered it with a set of Spirocore Weichs (3885) and I'm waiting for the bass to settle down before I take it to a luthier for proper setup. I come from the electric bass guitar world and -though I find the Weich's sound to be excellent, I would like to lower the tension for playability purposes.

• I've read about gut strings for playability, but I like the sound of metal strings, which, by the way, are far thinner and cheaper

• The nylon option. Presto, Eurosonic and the like seem to be on the extra-thick, gut-like sound side

• My present favourites for my next string change are: Corelli 370M and Thomastic Spirocore Solo, tuned to orchestra pitch.

• Corelli questions: Will they be too wimpy and make me lose so much volume?

• Spirocore Solo Questions: will they result too thin for jazz pizz? Are they so bad under the arco? (not really interested in arco for now,but it is a door i don't want to close for the future)

Any other tips or comments welcome. Thanx in advance

[philip sirois]

YOu really can't judge string tension on you're bass without a proper setup, period. To start worrying about strings before you get your bass setup the way you like it is getting the cart way before the horse. Go to a luthier, talk to him about what you want, get it done, THEN start obsessing about strings. The tension could change dramatically with a good setup. Waiting for the bass to settle down before getting it setup doesn't make sense.

[Francois Blais]

Furthermore, your fingers are not used to the increased tension of DB strings and maybe improper setup.
I also think your bass needs a good setup right now and give yourself a few months of training with the new toy before struggling with strings.
You have one of the best set on the market, and they're relatively easy to play. At least more than the mediums.

[malpasso]

Thanks, first of all, for your quick answers:
The fact is that my luthier has already seen the bass. He said that it was pretty well setup from the shop (Thomann cyberstore, in Europe) and that strings would not come much lower after his setup was done. It was him who suggested a month's wait period in order to let the bass get used to the temperature and humidity conditions of my region...but he also suggested that it would be much better to do the new settings in accordance to the strings i'd be using regularly.
I must grant that my adaptation to the stiffness of double bass strings has been pretty good, and that my "suffering" has nothing to do with what I experienced at first but -that being said- why to suffer if less tension makes it easier for you to move across the fingerboard, without an excessive loss of sound quality, maybe a slight drop in acoustic volume? (that would not matter much in my house, and there will be a pickup and an amp onstage). that's why I asked about these two string sets.
Anyway, let me repeat that all your comments are highly appreciated.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by malpasso

Corelli questions: Will they be too wimpy and make me lose so much volume?

In light of the fact that basses respond to strings differently, in my experience with my own Strunal 5/35 the Weichs delivered awesome pizz performance.

I hear that Brian Bromberg uses these strings...

[Francois Blais]

I like the Corelli 380M better than the 370M. (all nickel instead of nickel top/tungsten bottom for the 370s)
Warmer bottom, end they're very affordable.
It's a cheaper alternative than the solo Spiros, that you could check.
These slack strings allow much less dynamic than regular tension strings.
You can more easily overplay them.
But if you're used to EB, there are chances that you're already playing softly.

[Michael Case]

I'd say give the Spiro Weichs a chance. You'll get used to them.

[COUNT ZACULA]

Originally Posted by francois

I like the Corelli 380M better than the 370M. (all nickel instead of nickel top/tungsten bottom for the 370s)
Warmer bottom, end they're very affordable.
It's a cheaper alternative than the solo Spiros, that you could check.
These slack strings allow much less dynamic than regular tension strings.
You can more easily overplay them.
But if you're used to EB, there are chances that you're already playing softly.

Also Malpasso, I find the Correlli's infinately more bowable than the Spiros.

[malpasso]

Thanx a lot to all of you for your warm response:
My information about string tension comes from this link which I found extremely interesting:

http://baen.tamu.edu/users/rel/perso...ssStrings.html

Unfortunately there's no information about the Corelli 380 string tension.
Do you know what their tension values are?
As regards the Weichs, the truth is that the more I play them, ,the more I like the sound. Still I'm an absolute beginner as regards double bass, and i may be a little bit too anxious to improve easyness on the fingerboard as wel as to relieve physical stress for my hands: I'm hesitating between waiting till the luthier's setup is done or taking a decision to adapt the setup to the new strings.
Also those of you who seem interested in the topic of strings might enjoy this other link, containing sound samples from different string lables:

http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php

Again, no sign of Corellis there.

Thanks again... and keep the thread hot!

[philip sirois]

Get the bass setup and dont sweat the strings yet. You have plenty of time for that. If you like the sound of the weiches you'll get used to them. They're relatively low tension anyway.

[rdwhit]

Originally Posted by philip sirois

Get the bass setup and dont sweat the strings yet. You have plenty of time for that. If you like the sound of the weiches you'll get used to them. They're relatively low tension anyway.

ditto--or try flatchrome steel. lower tention than weiches, a little less volume better than corelli IMHO

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by rdwhit

ditto--or try flatchrome steel. lower tention than weiches, a little less volume better than corelli IMHO

Do you like the Flatchrome E?
Pretty weak and off-balanced with the other strings, IMHO.

[rdwhit]

Originally Posted by francois

Do you like the Flatchrome E?
Pretty weak and off-balanced with the other strings, IMHO.

i agree, it is weak. i have a weich E on right now. actually i wish the intire set was a little louder, but i like them as a crossover string & i need the low tension due to a bum left arm/shoulder

[TroyK]

I hate to be a tool here, but double bass in not bass guitar. You've got to learn to play it and condition your hands and body to it. Period. It can't be solved with different equipment. I humbly suggest to you that you have a bass, you have a luthier, now make sure you have a teacher who can help you and plenty of time to practice. Buy some NuSkin and get through the adjustment. There's a whole big world of wonderful low end waiting for you on the other side of the painful adjustment you're embarking on.

Don't worry about what you're going to wear on stage until you have a gig. Don't worry about which strings you're using until you've learned to play.

[rdwhit]

Originally Posted by TroyK

I hate to be a tool here, but double bass in not bass guitar. You've got to learn to play it and condition your hands and body to it. Period. It can't be solved with different equipment. I humbly suggest to you that you have a bass, you have a luthier, now make sure you have a teacher who can help you and plenty of time to practice. Buy some NuSkin and get through the adjustment. There's a whole big world of wonderful low end waiting for you on the other side of the painful adjustment you're embarking on.

Don't worry about what you're going to wear on stage until you have a gig. Don't worry about which strings you're using until you've learned to play.

ditto

[16fuss]

Hi Malpasso, I asked the Corelli Company Savarez for the difference between 370 TX and 380Tx. This is what they answered:
We thank you for your e-mail of 16th April and for contacting us. Your interest in our Corelli strings for double bass is greatly appreciated. We are glad to answer your question regarding the difference between the 370TX set and 380TX set.



The 370TX strings benefit from the use of tungsten and a winding technology exclusive to Corelli. The use of the tungsten has enabled us to produce strings that have a thinner gauge and therefore offer a great flexibility. As a result, it brings advantage of a quick response, a much focused sound, very clean and clear, and an enriched tone. It is very easy to get the string vibrating. Because the string is very sensitive, it can be played with less pressure under the bow. Two much pressure stops the vibration.

The 380TX strings are meant for the musicians who are accustomed to more traditional strings, using a more classical composition. They have a thicker diameter than the strings from the 370 TX set. They offer more resistance and require a more powerful attack. They suit the musicians particularly interested in playing pizzicato, and are less interested by the advantages and specific high qualities of the 370TX set.

The tension on the instrument is quite similar. Both sets 370TX and 380TX correspond to the Forte tension usual to all the manufacturers. Though they have a thinner gauge, the 370TX strings have the same tension as the 380TX sets, because the raw material we use – tungsten – as a higher density than the traditional materials used to produce the 380TX strings.



Hope this helps.

[Uncletoad]

I think everybody that is primarily a pizz player should spend 6 months to a year on Spirocores. Especially if you are a Jazz player.

After that have fun and join everyone else in string hell.

The spirocore is the benchmark for pizz playing. Learn how to play with Weichs or Mittels. That way you have something to compare to.

You cannot avoid the pain of growth as a player by using light strings. If anything you'll just slow down the progress.

Leave the weichs on there and burn them in. Let's pick this up again in a year.

[jsbarber]

Originally Posted by malpasso

... He said that it was pretty well setup from the shop (Thomann cyberstore, in Europe) and that strings would not come much lower after his setup was done....It was him who suggested a month's wait period in order to let the bass get used to the temperature and humidity conditions of my region...but he also suggested that it would be much better to do the new settings in accordance to the strings i'd be using regularly.
...

You do have a bit of a catch-22 in that, the set-up (i.e. string height) may be different depending on the choice of string. For instance, I have read in several postings here on TBDB that people have felt that Obligatos need to be set higher than Spirocores. So, from that perspective your teacher is correct. [Do you have an adjustable bridge?] But, as others have pointed out, until you develop your technique and get familliar with the instrument there is little point in making too many decisions. [What is the string height of your strings - fingerboard to bottom of string at the end of the fingerboard? You can go pretty low with the Weichs, and that will make it easier to play. There is a wide range of acceptable heights, and you probably want to be on the low end of that range - 8mm should not be too low if your fingerboard is setup/shaped properly.]

Getting a good teacher right from the start and learning to play with proper technique is critical, as has been pointed out already.

Also, from the perspective of buildling hand strength - I have found that playing trills with the bow is great for building strength. It is something my teacher told me to do every day. In the beginning you won't be able to go for more than about 10-15 seconds, but you can build up over time. These days I do 4 sets (2-4, 1-2, 1-4, 1-2) of 90 seconds with a 45 second rest in between.

So, while there is a reason why your luthier suggested picking the strings first, getting to the point where you have everything setup the way you really like it takes quite a bit of time. [And finding the right strings is a process that can go on for a long time, as you can see from some of the threads here on TBDB.] As you can see from the postings above there are plenty of reasons just to stick with the Weichs and try to climb that learning curve as fast as possible.

Jim

[rdwhit]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I think everybody that is primarily a pizz player should spend 6 months to a year on Spirocores. Especially if you are a Jazz player.

After that have fun and join everyone else in string hell.

The spirocore is the benchmark for pizz playing. Learn how to play with Weichs or Mittels. That way you have something to compare to.

You cannot avoid the pain of growth as a player by using light strings. If anything you'll just slow down the progress.

Leave the weichs on there and burn them in. Let's pick this up again in a year.

+1 , best advise yet

[martinc]

Malpasso wrote:"Unfortunately there's no information about the Corelli 380 string tension.
Do you know what their tension values are?"

They are close to the tension of Spirocore Weichs. I have used Correlli 380's and Weichs.
Either set will be good for you to play as a beginner because they are not high tension and should give you decent volume.
The Corelli 380's are very much like the Weichs in feel and diameter and sound. I'd keep the Weichs on. Not worth changing. They are a good string to get those callouses developed.