Newbie Alert! Looking for good "hybrid" strings

[The Diaper Geni]

I did a search and came up with some good info. But thought I'd ask here, too.

The deets:
--I've got a Shen 3/4 carved top (plywood sides and back) loaded with Spirocores.
--Currently have pretty low action as my hands get used to the physical nature of the URB.
--Looking for better arco sound/feel/playability. I'm getting a very scratchy tone. (I'm sure my technique, or lack thereof, has to do with this, also.)
--Looking for less "growl" and more "thump/thud" for pizz.

My playing situations have been, and probably will be for the immediate future, mostly low volume dinner sets and casuals. But I'd like to get my arco up to speed and see what's out there, even if it's a communtiy orchestra type of thing. (Never played in an orchestra and would LOVE to do so!)

According to this old thread it seems that my tone goals may be suitable for a hybrid string in that I don't really want a lot of sustain in my pizz, correct?

Suggestions, please! And thank you in advance!!

[Marc Piane]

Mortgage your future. If you head down the string swapping mode prepare to be broke.

In all honesty the strings that might suit you best are OLD spiros. On my quest the strings that I really dug that didn't break the bank where Spiros that were over 6months old. The older the better really.

Of the new variety I really like Evahs. I have them on one of my basses. They bow beautifully and have a nice, strong pizz. They are a little growly but dark. The only problem is they are ~$200 a set.

Seriously, if you keep your eye in the classifieds here you can find and old set of Spiros Reds for $50 and they kill.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by The Diaper Geni

I'm getting a very scratchy tone. (I'm sure my technique, or lack thereof, has to do with this, also.)

Have a good arco player play your bass and listen from a distance. I bet the "scratch" disappears. On another note, I heard the Mingus Big Band over the summer and was sure the bassist was using guts, as he was getting a very dark sound. When I went up to the bandstand to look at the bass, Spiro Mittles.

But as Fingers says, the Evahs, both regulars and weichs are very nice strings that I use as a complete set and in combo with Spiros.

[MaxJohnson]

I think Flat Chromesteels or Permanents might do the trick.

[salcott]

At the moment, I have Permanent E and A w/Gamut G and D, and they seem to match up pretty well thumpwise.

[The Diaper Geni]

Originally Posted by fingers

Mortgage your future. If you head down the string swapping mode prepare to be broke.

The only problem is they are ~$200 a set.

ZOINKS!! That ain't cheap, that's for sure!

But after about $3,000 invested into my upright (including a Full Circle, a pre, bow and of course sales tax) what's another $200???

I appreciate all the suggestions. Keep them coming!

[sirero]

the problem isn't: what's another $200?

It's: what's another $200, well maybe those strings will be the ones I need, hmm maybe i can throw down another $200, but maybe...ad nauseum.

The point is when you start down the perfect tone through string path you can blow ALOT of money, and some people are fine with that, I found my Bel Cantos and I am pleased as punch, but they aren't right for every bass.

I'm not one for spending money for the sake of spending money, however you do want to find somethign your happy with. if your not happy with your strings then change them!

Yes, I did in fact make both sides of that argument, I'm not really sure which one I believe more.

Also: as far as types of strings go I really don't care for "hybrids" IME YMMV I have gotten a very pleasing pizz tone out of "Orchestral" strings and would say they are worth considering. The exact comparison for me were Helicore Os vs Hs and the Os where alright on my bass, not phenomenal, but solid. Where as the H's weren't especially good for either. Again IMO YMMV.

[Bobby King]

There's a million answers to your question. The strings you have now will get thumpier as they get older, and you can develop your technique to produce more of that sound. I've found Spirocores to perfectly fine for arco, again, technique is required. They are versatile and durable. The happiest bassists use Spirocores and never change.

If you want to try a hybrid string, I'd recommend either Evah Pirazzi or Obligato. These have a darker and thumpier sound than most steel strings, but often not as much power and volume as Spirocores. They are much better arco strings than any of the Velvets, but you may find Velvets superior for pizz. Using an orchestral steel string is also an option, more dark and thumpy pizz, great arco. The problem is that usually the lower strings are too dead sounding for pizz. Depends on the bass and particular string.

Gut strings produce the maximum pizz thump but require great skill to produce a good arco sound. If you think Spiros sound scratchy, wait until you try bowing on a plain gut G string. Guts have many wonderful qualities and have had a revival in popularity, but few orchestral arco players use them these days.

So, bottom line, Evah Pirazzi or Obligato.

[Phil Rowan]

There's a set of used Spiro Weichs in the TB classifieds for $80, which will last and will only sound better with time. IMHO, get those (if you find the weich E lacking, just swap it for a Spiro mittel E), put em on the bass, break 'em in (they're used so it shouldn't take as long), forget about strings in general, and just focus on building and bettering your technique on the double bass.

[The Diaper Geni]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

...forget about strings in general, and just focus on building and bettering your technique on the double bass.

This is prolly what I should do. But dang it!, new stuff is fun!!!

I must admit I'm having a freakin' blast on the URB after almsot 30 years on electric. Do I suck? Yup. But getting better and getting some hand strength, too. Already logged a couple of dinner sets on the bad boy, too!

Plus, being a pop/rock/Top 40 guy, playing some "classical"/arco stuff and some jazz stuff (via Aebersold) is a breath of fresh air. Case in point: I had a little under two hours to shed today. I can always use some work on my electric but decided to spend that whole time on the upright. Well, minus some small breaks to rest the hands.

[ldekoning]

There are several users on talkbass who use spiros for arco, and swear by them. However they seem to require a long break-in period to lose some of their harshness. Patience might be your cheapest option!

But personally, I think Evah Pirazzis are fantastic all-around strings. I love their huge, dark and powerful pizz and luscious arco sound. Their only drawbacks are slightly higher tension, and possibly a shorter lifespan than all-steel strings. I tried Belcantos, which produce a very beautiful arco sound in the high registers, but they just didn't seem to have the raw power and pizz qualities of the EPs.

[The Diaper Geni]

Thanks again for all your responses!

I'm going to let the Spiros break in. And also let my technique get better!

The Spiros have been less harsh the last week or two. They might be hitting that "break-in" period. But I've also been messing with my technique. Trying to bow lighter (less pressure). I've also loosened the bow a little, I'm using just a hair more rosin and at the same time bowing a little closer to the fretboard.

Once my playing gets up to speed and I start to gig out more on the upright I'll prolly pick up some EP's.

[The Diaper Geni]

Nevermind my previous post. These Spiros seemed to break in a little, then stopped. They're driving me crazy! Plus, I'm not crazy about the pizz tone from these. Too growly. I'd like more "thump".

I think some EP's are in my future!

[TroyK]

I'm a spirocore guy in this discussion usually, but if you don't like the sharp attack pizz and are determined to try something new, I think Evah Pirazzi weichs would be a good, safe choice. Would give you a duller pizz tone and be easier under the bow. Should last a good long while and be a stable string for you once they settle in.

They were too dark for me and missing some goodness that comes from learning to work with spirocores or jazzers, but as you can see from the mega thread, those who love them, love them.

Obligatos are somewhat similar strings, but I think have some well documented construction issues that would be good to avoid. There are other similar strings like Innovations and Heritatge, but EPs are the pack leader right now and though they didn't appeal to me tonally, they're reliable, which is not something that can be said about most of the strings in that category.

Option A) Keep your spirocores for a backup. Strings do break on the odd occasion and you may be glad some day that you have them.

Option B) sell them in the classifieds and get maybe 1/2 of your investment in the EPs back.

Nice doggie, by the way.

[Francois Blais]

My suggestion may seem odd to some, but did you try Helicore orchestrals?

[The Diaper Geni]

Originally Posted by Francois Blais

My suggestion may seem odd to some, but did you try Helicore orchestrals?

I have not. The Helicore's and the EP's were the two strings most mentioned in my search.

I really did not want to spend $200 on a set of bass strings, especially since I'm still a newbie to upright. BUT, I did just that! They EP's should be here next week. There goes tonight's gig money!!

From what I've heard about the EP's, they sound like they'll be right up my alley pizz-tone-wise and ease-of-bowing-wise.

Oh, and TroyK: Thanks! He's a husky mutt. Or as we call him, a Musky. He's smell bad and sheds so much twice a year that our house is like living inside a snow globe. He's about 55 lbs, 5.5 ft long (toe to toe) when he stretches out on the floor and the fastest dog I've ever seen outside of a greyhound. The dog takes about three strides to get up to speed and then, ZIP!, he's nothin' but a blur. He's a sweatheart of a dog and loves our family. Especially my two kids. So he's a keeper! (After 6 years of owning him!)

Again, thanks all for your help! I'll keep you guys updated.

[The Diaper Geni]

Originally Posted by TroyK

Option B) sell them in the classifieds and get maybe 1/2 of your investment in the EPs back.

I'll prolly do just that. Have to make sure the EP's are keepers, though, first.

[The Diaper Geni]

Yuppers. The EP's are keepers. For sure.

Spirocores are FS here.

I really like the arco and pizz tone of the EP's on my bass, even right out of the package. More even sounding from string to string and a much stronger fundamental. The Spiros had the upper-mid grooooowwwl that reminded me of an electric fretless. Which I don't want. If I did want that tone I'd buy myself a good Mexi Jazz and stick some Barts in it and call it a day.